#dev 2025-02-24
2025-02-24 UTC
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gregsarjeant It's taken me a while to get here, but I have a janky little node.js app monitoring my site and sending out webmentions in response to new posts and I'm so happy.
# gregsarjeant aaronpk++ Thanks for all the posts you've written and tools you've built for webmentions. They've been a huge help.
# gregsarjeant Next step: write up my journey!
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zachary.kai I've managed to add a search function to my site! (Using PHP.) Next: a note on how I did it. https://zacharykai.net/search Suggestions for improvements always welcome!
# zachary.kai [edit] I've managed to add a search function to my site! (Using PHP.) Next: a note on how I did it. https://zacharykai.net/search Suggestions for improvements always welcome!
# zachary.kai [edit] I've managed to add a search function to my site! (Using PHP.) Next: a note on how I did it. https://zacharykai.net/search Suggestions for improvements always welcome!
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# zachary.kai lazcorp Of course! I'll post the link here as soon as I've written it. Hope you'll find it useful!
# GWG- I've been playing with upgrading my media server... I see it offers webhooks... wondering what interesting integrations I can do with my website. Any ideas?
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# [snarfed] that one specifically is yet another problem that I hadn't originally included in https://snarfed.org/2023-03-24_49619-2 : experienced engineers who understand it, but deliberately choose not to serve Vary by default due to FUD that it will expand cache sizes too much
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[tantek] oh yeah cache-busting here we go: https://notiz.blog/2025/02/24/krautpress-website-club/?please-gimme-html-not-json cc: [pfefferle]
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# GWG- [Murray]: Yes, just not sure how much I want to reveal what I'm watching and when.
# GWG- I was thinking of making it private and then aggregating
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[Murray] also, something like a "now watching" doesn't need to be real-time. You could log it when you start watching a season of something, and have it show until the final episode is sent (maybe; not sure how you'd automatically determine the final episode 😄). Or just a "most recently watched" with some kind of delay
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[pfefferle] [tantek] that is a cache glitch 😞
# [pfefferle] is it?
# [pfefferle] cleared the cache now
# [tantek] for reference, this issue: https://github.com/Automattic/wordpress-activitypub/issues/580 IMO should be re-opened until there's a solution that doesn't require the blog user to manually clear their cache
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] The https://www.w3.org/events/workshops/2025/authentic-web-workshop/ event looks interesting!
# capjamesg[d] [edit] [tantek] The https://www.w3.org/events/workshops/2025/authentic-web-workshop/ event looks interesting!
# [pfefferle] it is not a problem by the plugin, but by caching plugins not supporting conneg
# capjamesg[d] I am encouraged that the W3C community is doing more work in this area!
# [pfefferle] a lot of them are already ignoring the application header
# [pfefferle] but there are so many
# [pfefferle] yes
# [pfefferle] or to disable conneg for the permalinks 😞
# [pfefferle] do you see html now?
# [pfefferle] there is a follow up https://github.com/Automattic/wordpress-activitypub/wiki/Caching
# [pfefferle] I am directing all people with issues to the wiki and help them to report it to their plugin devs
# [pfefferle] 😮💨
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# GWG- [Murray]: Running Plex and Jellyfin in parallel... waiting for a final face-off
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# [snarfed] [pfefferle] I don't think "it is not a problem by the plugin, but by caching plugins not supporting conneg" is quite right. the AP plugin is the one serving different content types for the same URL based on the `Accept` header, so I'd argue it's the AP plugin's responsibility to also serve the `Vary` header
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# [pfefferle] we had this conversation so many times 🙂
# [pfefferle] these are plugins, not caching services
# [pfefferle] I am not aware that any of the plugins even care about the header
# [pfefferle] isn't this somehting cloudflare cares about?
# [pfefferle] why should a local/in app caching check the vary header?
# [pfefferle] no support
# [pfefferle] that is the inhouse caching
# [pfefferle] 🙂
# [pfefferle] but that is what I always try to tell you
# [pfefferle] my caching plugin does not support vary headers
# [pfefferle] now its sending it
# [pfefferle] but I am sure that it does not help here
# [pfefferle] should it always send the header or only when it is requested with the application/activity+json?
# [pfefferle] I am fine with adding it, but it will not solve the plugin problem
# [pfefferle] I have checked all big plugins
# [pfefferle] I checked their code
# [pfefferle] we provide a mechanism for it, but it is opt-in
# [pfefferle] I had a long discussion with WP-Rocket, one of the biggest caching systems and they had no way to do it
# [Joe_Crawford] Cache hit depends on what's used for the key. If `Vary` and its value isn't part of the key then you get a false cache hit. Would be ... uh... fun to read some different implementations - see how they compose that key.
# [pfefferle] [snarfed] let me phrase it differently... "not urgent/important/critical enough to implement it"
# [pfefferle] and most caching plugin devs build en exception for the content header... which means that they are not cached...
# [pfefferle] yes
# [pfefferle] but I am fine with sending the vary by default
# [pfefferle] so I will work on a PR tomorrow to implement that
# [pfefferle] let's see if it helps
# [pfefferle] on the other hand I thought about disabling the conneg by default
# [pfefferle] we do that already for quite a while
# [pfefferle] for posts it was easy... but profiles might be tricky
# [pfefferle] I still have conneg enabled
# [pfefferle] I am not sure if there are still implementations around that query the URL
# [pfefferle] it does
# [pfefferle] as I said... maybe there are still implementations that query the URL instead of the ID
# [pfefferle] I have not deactivated conneg for my permalinks
# [pfefferle] yes, but I like that you can simply search for a permalink to react to a post
# [pfefferle] at least on mastodon
# [snarfed] you don't need to serve conneg to make search in Mastodon work, right? rel-alternate should be enough for that? http://localhost:8080/docs#web-searchable
# [pfefferle] but what is even worse is, that I have an exception in my caching plugin... 😞
# [pfefferle] that is a localhost URL
# [pfefferle] 🤔
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# [pfefferle] I do that already
# [pfefferle] so let me run some experiments on that
# [pfefferle] that would be even easier
# [pfefferle] thanks for pushing me again and again [snarfed] ☺️
# [pfefferle] snarfed++
# [pfefferle] and thanks to all of you for your feedback/input
# [pfefferle] Will see how I can clean up the plugin a bit
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# [pfefferle] ☺️
# [pfefferle] not always easy to fight the old code that developed, because I tried to reverse engineer mastodon instead of reading the spec 🫣
# [pfefferle] aside from conneg, it was a very bad idea to use the pretty permalinks as ids… but as an IndieWeb guy, this made the most sense… back in the days ☺️
# [pfefferle] Exactly because of the conneg problem and that ap is expecting the id to serve the json
# [pfefferle] And the “unchanging” argument is valid too… it makes changing usernames way harder if the username is part of the pretty permalink
# [pfefferle] you never stop learning ☺️
# [pfefferle] Mastodon made the same mistake btw.
# [pfefferle] (the username in the permalink mistake)
# [tantek] sounds like good lessons to document in /URL_design
# 
Loqi URL design is the practice of deliberately designing URLs, in particular, permalinks, typically for a better UX for everyone who creates, reads, and shares content https://indieweb.org/URL_design
# [pfefferle] not publicly (yet)
# [pfefferle] but they definitely learned from that and thinking about ways to "fix" it
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