#dev 2025-09-07

2025-09-07 UTC
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glitzeor4444 Hello all! I was reading this post about cool and human readable URIs, and I don't think I understand how to make it work for my statically generated digital garden website. 😅
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 I can assign a permalink for each page, so that even if I change the website title it won't change the URI anymore. But I'm not sure about how to balance the cool factor with the readable factor.
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 E.g. https://garden.patsitive.co.nz/5a1a1-posse/
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 Because a lot of what I post are zettels, I have an ID convention for my posts—that doesn't change, so the cool part is fine if I just use the URL. Which i did until i read that they need to also be readable. Which is fair, but I'm not sure how to do that.
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 Ideally with above, even if I change everything after 5a1a1, the browser should still serve up the correct page. E.g. /5a1a1-posse /5a1a1-publish-own /5a1a1/coconuts
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 I don't understand the suggestion that was given in the post, nor am I sure that's the ideal solution.
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 So, keen to hear what people think 🤔
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 For anyone who is like wth is a zettel, it's from zettelkasten
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IWDiscord <g​litzeor4444>
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glitzeor4444 What is zettelkasten
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Loqi 🗃️ A zettelkasten is note taking system featuring atomic notes which are densely interlinked and are used primarily for writing and acting as an external memory https://indieweb.org/zettelkasten
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[snarfed] glitzeor444 yes, that URL design practice of immutabled id followed by mutable slug, and fetching the post by just the id, is a common one
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[tantek] Yes very much so!
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glitzeor4444 Oh that's cool! Good to know! How might I go about making that happen with a static site generated site? 😅 I don't think mine does the routing protocol thing
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[KevinMarks] On the Atom to AS1 json thing, that was basically me inside Google doing OpenSocial - they wanted to use Atom, which was reasonable, but they wanted the JSON version to be the GData JSON remapping which does an automated way of representing properties as well as nesting by filling everything with $ signs.
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[KevinMarks] I said "that looks like crap and js developers will hate it" and got into a huge internal fight, but published what was essentially AS1 json version (and also portable contacts Atom and json)
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[KevinMarks] At the time Google had barely any javascript devs and relied heavily on the internal tooling where you wrote Java and it wrote fugly js for you
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[KevinMarks] here's what their Atom-derived JSON looked like https://developers.google.com/gdata/docs/json#json
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[KevinMarks] GWT was the Java stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Web_Toolkit
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[KevinMarks] I used mermaid a bit a few years ago to generate network diagrams but eventually wrote my own code to make them as I wanted more control over how they looked
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I remember gdata as a deadend fork of Atom though. the AS1 JSON thing may have been simultaneously invented bc I remember actual ActivityStreams meetings where it was discussed. Going to check the AS wiki unless you have a better source for that history
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[tantek] PoCo similarly was a bikeshed JSON fork of vCard (and hCard for that matter since it was already a widely adopted thing by then)
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[tantek] Disappointing when people make up a new vocabulary for something just because they're using a new syntax
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[KevinMarks] We definitely had the meetings, and I didn't push to chair them as I didn't want it to be all Google driven. Most of the social networks apart from MySpace weren't interested in the standards work - Monica drove from their PoV and the people doing feed aggregators - gnip and another one were also keen
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[KevinMarks] GData used the Atom pagination stuff https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5005 which helped with the big combined feeds a lot
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[tantek] Point is there was an actual AS1 JSON spec and it was not gdata
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[tantek] I don't remember the AS meetings having any chair at all. Just whoever happened to be writing things on the whiteboard at the time, and people took turns doing so
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[KevinMarks] Yes, but that was after 2007 when I forced the issue internally at Google. I then worked inside to keep the OpenSocial stuff fully aligned with the AS1 work and PoCo too, at least until Vic decided to do the Emerald Sea nonsense
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[tantek] Someday you gotta write about all the trials and tribulations of Open Social. The myriad tragedies involved with it are nothing short of Shakespearean. I remember its last gasps at the 2013 workshop in SF on social web for business or whatever it was called
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[tantek] What was 2013/osfw3c
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Loqi Workshop on Social Standards: The Future of Business https://indieweb.org/2013/osfw3c
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[tantek] I believe that, and the subsequent submission of OpenSocial materials (and domain?) to the W3C Social Web WG (I.e. OpenSocial 2.5 was contributed by IBM as input for a "Social API") was the last gasp of OpenSocial. No one from OpenSocial showed up to the WG to actually make it work, which was probably a good thing as it had kind of gone off the complexity deepend by then. It's absence gave us the opportunity to conceive Micropub
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[tantek] Its* thanks autocorrect
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doesnm what is OpenSocial
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Loqi OpenSocial was a "standards-based component model for cloud based social apps" formerly at http://opensocial.org/ which now redirects (along with all URLs at that domain) to a W3C blog post: http://www.w3.org/blog/2014/12/opensocial-foundation-moves-standards-work-to-w3c-social-web-activity/ https://indieweb.org/OpenSocial
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[snarfed] 🍿
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doesnm looks like opensocial is abandoned? i see only two apache implementations and both are retired
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[tantek] Yup. Their "foundation" claimed they were going to show up and continue their standards work in the social web working group. Narrator voice: they didn't.
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[tantek] Abandonment is an accurate summary
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doesnm https://github.com/apache/shindig well articles says about php directory but i can't found it. Please say that i'm blind :)
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Loqi [preview] [apache] shindig: Mirror of Apache Shindig (incubating)
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[snarfed] long ago
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[snarfed] minor bit of trivia, granary's REST API is basically OpenSocial's
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[KevinMarks] There was a PHP version, as that is what MySpace ran on. It was originally built for one of the Netherlands social networks, and I had a fair but of trouble getting 2008 Google to hire the maintainer as the usual hiring process didn't value PHP
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doesnm so they deleted it and stayed only java?
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[KevinMarks] I'm not sure, it was there before
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doesnm lost interest
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[KevinMarks] https://web.archive.org/web/20080907062322/http://svn.apache.org:80/repos/asf/incubator/shindig/trunk/php/#expand
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doesnm [KevinMarks]: https://github.com/apache/shindig/commit/59355776eae0e0f7a6733b341d255a94e52577cd
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[tantek] Yah Google's historical allergy to PHP is kind of a hilarious blind spot
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doesnm idk if it's broken but i can't load example gadgets ._.
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[morganm] Does anyone have any reactions to https://developer.wordpress.com/studio/ ? Word press Studio, I dont know the context behind it, but its affiliated with wordpress dot com ?
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[morganm] Im being asked to work on a wordpress site and Id like to work locally and this was suggested as an option
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[tantek] Maybe more folks in #indieweb-wordpress may have experience?
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[tantek] today's jargon rant: why is "internationalization" / i18n called what it is? if it's truly about making things work in more languages and cultures, then it should be a mix of multilingual and multicultural. "internationalization" literally means between or among *nations* which is absolutely not the point of i18n (in W3C / standards contexts)
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.pi.r2. tantek: I prefer l10n localization but not by much
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[tantek] they are different things!
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.pi.r2. sure
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[tantek] but yes, l10n / localization is much better named for its meaning
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