#dev 2025-10-08
2025-10-08 UTC
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[tantek] aaronpk, in terms of naming, it may depend on which audience you're trying to appeal to. if to primarily appeal to devs then yes something with "IndieAuth" in the name (also helps promote the standard!). however, if to primarily appeal to users of such a service as their delegated IdP, then something with "Web Sign-in" may be more appealing (get more adoption).
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[morganm] I had a good day today making automated tests
# [morganm] I wrote more code today than I have in a hot minute, stood up a whole Playwright project and wrote 6 really terse but powerful tests
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# [morganm] Lets say I wanted to learn about webmentions. But I dont want to do it in my spare time just yet, because Ive got enough computer in my life. Just show up to a FrESH with a little prep before and thats a good place to learn about increasing some indieweb features on my site?
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gRegor I haven't looked at this in a while but I imagine it's still a great intro: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention
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Loqi Webmention.rocks is a validator to help you test your Webmention implementation https://indieweb.org/Webmention.rocks
# [morganm] Bookmarked! Ill give them a try sometime, Aarons article looks great and webmention rocks
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[artlung] This is my attempt to boil down the webmention concepts. https://lab.artlung.com/webmentions/
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# [schmarty]5 i had hopes, in the glitch-dot-com days, of making it easy for folks to run their own IndieAuth infrastructure. focus would be on making a tiny server that can run most anywhere, minimal design that is meant to teach how to customize and maintain it, etc.
# [schmarty]5 but indieauth involves security stuff so i scared myself away from it
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# [John_Gorenfeld] That's a really good idea. What do you think the biggest security challenge was? Like, having https set up?
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[schmarty] [John_Gorenfeld] - my biggest concerns were around implementing the OAuth2 bits securely. storing auth codes and access tokens, getting consent screen details right, making it easy to wire up protected services like micropub endpoints, tools to monitor and manage access live access tokens, and of course the many layers of making it configurable in case someone wants to play with different ways of doing things.
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aaronpk ok i just made some updates to indielogin.com, adding PKCE, using better URLs for the API, etc. non breakign changes for any previous integrations, but new clients will have to use the new behavior. I think that's what was holding me back from feeling comfortable with more people building against it, so i'm opening up more client ID requests for it now
# aaronpk someone made a nice site about it and everything https://cimd.dev/
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[benji] [schmarty] that's a big reason why I finally wrote my indieauth implementation. It runs "serverless" on netlify so it's similar in idea to how glitch ran. Don't think anyone else other than me uses it but it seems to be working fine so far and I'd love it if it made it easier for others to setup a personal indieauth server with minimal work
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# [morganm] TIL, https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-parecki-oauth-client-id-metadata-document-00.html . Impressive stuff
# [schmarty] aaronpk++ *neat*
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# [morganm] Ive posted a few times about Playwright but after using it for like 3 hours total the last few days on personal projects and at work, I honestly give it my seal of approval and star rating again. Ill be honest, because of the way Playwright really "came to be" i.e the core developers on puppeteer moving to Playwright, my brain computed this to mean "it might become worse anytime, if the core devs leave or things change" but actually its
# [morganm] somehow become simpler and more powerful, the VS Code Extension could be operated by someone who is afraid of a terminal
# [morganm] (Im using it to test my personal sites- relevance 😉 )
# Kolev Getting used to Zola.
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# .pi.r2. I have a pretty bad experience with playwright personally. Granted I was only targetting chromium platforms, but the extra layers made everything more complicated and less reliable IMHO. it's also very much geared toward testing rather than general automation.
# .pi.r2. anyway, building stuff on top of the Chrome Devtools Protocol directly now, and much happier with the tradeoff than I was carrying a big complex lib around. it's a solid interface with great docs IMHO.
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# [Al_Abut] @.pi.r2. Do you have a rec for beginner-friendly automation tools? Would that be puppeteer? I have a quick fun test project in mind (scraping my account on the local library’s page for book status) and if that works, it could be useful for hacking together other more meaningful integrations.
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# carrvo [schmarty]5: I am already on my way to doing just that.
# carrvo What is MIndie?
# Loqi MIndie is a minimal, self-hosted IndieAuth solution for the home, developed and used by carrvo https://indieweb.org/MIndie
# carrvo aaronpk++ Glad to hear about Client ID Metadata Documents! I already use them! Am quite interested to hear about IndieLogin.com despite running my own IDP 😄
# carrvo PKCE I think was something I was scared away from. How hard was it and how long did it take you to implement?
# carrvo Oh! Just had a quick look and it was JWKS that scared me away. I think PKCE was already included with SelfAuth+MinToken 🙂
# [morganm] [Al_Abut] Puppeteer is a perfectly adequate tool to do what Playwright can also do to automate scraping info
# [morganm] Playwright like Pierre mentions is oriented for testing though, at least with the stuff that it comes with, that I find helpful but can be a bit much
# [morganm] Basically Playwright comes with these browsers that are basically binaries, webkit and firefox also, which is what "sets it apart" from chrome only puppeteer
# [morganm] But if you are just scraping book status at a library, it doesnt really matter what browser you use to get that info
# [morganm] Unless the library is using non baseline features and is a super modern library website 😉
# carrvo On a different note, what wiki page was their for migrating away from silos? I just finished archiving Facebook onto my site and wanted to give some helpful notes about issues along the way.
# [morganm] if its a library website that basically doesnt change or do any tomfoolery, you could possibly set up cURL or this tool:
# [morganm] https://github.com/mgdm/htmlq
# [morganm] htmlq is super fun, querying snippets of HTML, I used it in relation to a personal htmx test project a while ago
# carrvo what is migration?
# Loqi migration in the context of the indieweb refers to the process of moving your indieweb site from any one or more of one CMS / web host / DNS provider / URL design / domain name to another https://indieweb.org/migration
# carrvo Maybe there?
# carrvo Nope.
# Loqi export (specifically, How to export your data) in the context of the indieweb refers to the ability to download some or all of your data from a site, typically from a silo, though also for CMS or site migration https://indieweb.org/Export
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