#dev 2025-10-19

2025-10-19 UTC
bterry1, grufwub, qbrack_, DanQ, ttybitnik, duanin2, sandra, aaronpk, jonnybarnes, barnaby, [social], proofreed, [morganm], GuestZero_, dissolve22[d], GuestZero, oodani, [Al_Abut], CrimeWave and [snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] haven't seen any discussion on this here yet:
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[snarfed] https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/11155-A-fair-independent-streaming-platform
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[snarfed] https://the.socialmusic.network/t/canimus-yet-another-federation-syndication-approach/686
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[snarfed] https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/10464-IndieRadio-progress-Canimus
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[tantek] Fascinating!
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[tantek] [fluffy] ++
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Loqi [fluffy] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (13 in all channels)
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aaronpk fascinating argument:
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aaronpk > ActivityPub is so generic that it’s useless without coordination between parties, which is what we have to do regardless of what protocol we follow.
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[tantek] Both RDF and XML had similar problems. Nothing worked without parties also agreeing on a specific vocabulary with meanings for things
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[tantek] So at that point why bother with another syntax abstraction?
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[tantek] Work on the actual problems, vocabulary and shared meaning. This is what motivated the focus in microformats
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[tantek] In fairness to AP, it gets a lot of that via the shared vocab of AS2. But if you want to do something that's not in AS2, then you have to do the hard work of creating the shared vocab
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[tantek] Then the question is, is it worth attempting to shoehorn your new vocab into AP/AS or do you "just" use "simple" JSON for example? Tradeoffs either way
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[fluffy] That's exactly why I'm defining a protocol that's domain-specific.
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[fluffy] There's already been some good discussion in other places about facets of the thing and I've just pushed some updates to the repo that consider that.
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[fluffy] The bikeshedding that happens in indieweb space is a big part of why I wasn't discussing it here, and was focusing on doing a domain-specific proposal that I brought to other stakeholders in the streaming music space. In particular I've been collaborating with Simon of Mirlo, and am now opening up discussions with other folks.
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[fluffy] The idea behind this protocol is that it's something that could theoretically be implemented by any distributor and consumer, and that there's flexibility for it to grow and change as needs arise. It's also largely inspired by the existing data schemes used by things like iTunes, Spotify, and Funkwhale, because there needs to be *some* common vocabulary and structure for things to make sense.
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[morganm] Im feeling really good somehow, I rewatched a conference talk video I gave earlier this year about web components and Im really actually still enjoying it. Wanted to share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXj0XcxriYE
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[morganm] Web components may be of possible interest to personal websites 🙂
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[tantek] Makes sense [fluffy]. Collaborating with other more directly connected stakeholders is a good approach
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[fluffy] yeah. anyway this is super cool, I published my own feed at https://sockpuppet.band/canimus.json and someone else has already built a player for it at https://allyabase.com/ so I feel like this is already going somewhere awesome
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[tantek] Is canimus inspired from Can I Music and pronounced like caniuse except "muse" instead of "use"?
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[fluffy] It's Latin for "we make music"
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[fluffy] "can I use" was definitely not on my mind, that's purely coincidental
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[fluffy] but it's a fun reading of it anyway 🙂
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trwnh i find it very odd that anyone uses activitystreams for things that are not activity streams, or uses activitypub for something other than publishing activities. then i remember mastodon exists... > [tantek]: Then the question is, is it worth attempting to shoehorn your new vocab into AP/AS or do you "just" use "simple" JSON
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[fluffy] My understanding is that Mastodon only went with Activitypub because it was an easier way to shoehorn a modicum of post privacy into the platform instead of extending OStatus. (I fully feel that extending OStatus would have been a far superior approach.)
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[fluffy] and the way they did that shoehorning wasn't even, y'know. Good.
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aaronpk that was the crux of the decision IIRC
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Kolev Can someone tell me how to get rid of bitnami? https://codeberg.org/kolev/calebh-top/src/branch/main/.woodpecker.yaml