#dev 2026-05-25

2026-05-25 UTC
aaronpk, grufwub, sp1ff, shane9, [aciccarello], blacklight and strugee joined the channel
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WinnerWind im making my own SSG and ive been having so much fun moving all the functions to their own plugins
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WinnerWind a while ago i joked that "the SSG itself will become a plugin".... that has become true
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WinnerWind the SSG is now optional xD
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[jeremycherfas] OK, here we go again.
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[jeremycherfas] Darn, no cost-optimised servers available. So a slightly more expensive learning experience.
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jak2k I wrote an almost SSG in Rust and Lisp. It was a lot of fun but super messy. So I rewrote it as dynamic Rust server.
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jak2k WinnerWind: Can I find your code anywhere?
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WinnerWind jak2k: a dynamic rust server? that isn't an SSG anymore, is it
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WinnerWind https://git.winnerwind.in/ you can find my code here
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jak2k WinnerWind: Yes, it was very close to an SSG but that was too messy. That's why it's not a SSG anymore.
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WinnerWind why is python so darn fast? My first implementation of the SSG involved having one loop over the entire directory. now it has three loops: once over the directory, twice over an array, and its still just as fast
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WinnerWind jak2k: still interesting. a server based "ssg" could make some very interesting sites
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jak2k WinnerWind: "Server based SSG" is a quite good description of how it worked. All sites were statically generated to RAM/SQLite instead of the filesystem. But that hit a limit when I wanted to add dynamic sections such as a bookmark search or Webmention.
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WinnerWind why not make it partially RAM/SQLite and partially HTML?
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WinnerWind you could make a template in HTML, load that in, then modify the template using values in memory. thats basically what my static site generator does
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Zegnat With an aggressive enough response cache, everything can be a SSG :D
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WinnerWind i had this dream of making a new minimalist "internet" where instead of html files, webservers share md files or txt files and reader softwares interpret said content
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WinnerWind that way you can make the web run on anything
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jak2k But then we would need some kind if syntax for indicating headings and then we would end up with HTML.
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jak2k I just opened a PR so I can access my webmention.io account again without the login getting caught in iocaine: https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php/pull/31
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[pcarrier] WinnerWind: look up gemini protocol and format, that might be close to what you have in mind?
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[pcarrier] what is gemini protocol?
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Loqi The Gemini protocol is an alternative to HTTP with similar use-cases, with intentional consideration of privacy and security, that could be an alternative way to serve an IndieWeb site https://indieweb.org/Gemini_protocol
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WinnerWind reading the indieweb wiki, it seems that gemtext is very stripped down and doesnt contain much of markdown
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WinnerWind but cool!
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WinnerWind another issue is that my server is incapable of using arbitrary TCP so i can only do gemini protocol over HTTP
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[tantek] I am a believer in not containing much of markdown. This is the way
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[pcarrier] well, it's not super practical unless you want to enjoy the niche, I don't recommend investing time in it as I dislike a few design decision (Trust On First Use in particular), just thought it was a curiosity worth looking at 😉
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WinnerWind i want to enjoy the niche, but the niche makes no sense if there's only one person in it
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[pcarrier] well, it's _very_ niche, but not that niche :D
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[tantek] pcarrier for me it's more the philosophy of questioning markdown rather than where gemtxt ended up
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[pcarrier] [tantek] I dislike markup formats and generally cramming syntax in textual formats, so everything from roff onward feels like a failure of ASN.1 tooling / excessive Unixism. a very unpopular opinion, I must admit :)
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WinnerWind "i dislike markup formats": that's basically half of HTML, haha
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WinnerWind wriitng HTML is such a chore that i'd rather write a template and neevr look at it ever again
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[pcarrier] We're all manipulating text formats all the time, all the dev tooling is built around that, there's little to no tooling to work with binary formats other than libraries, and I'm doing nothing to fight those battles, so definitely not arguing it should be any different any time soon, just not vibing with modern computering on those aspects.
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WinnerWind i mean text formats are technically binary formats if you stretch the definition a little
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[pcarrier] I quite liked writing haml at some point. indentation as syntax was my only gripe with it, besides the obvious "is it worth being a compilation step away from the platform" which I tend not to feel through watch/build/refresh loops in my toolboxes and the fact that browsers expose the DOM tree visually.
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[pcarrier] WinnerWind: I've done a fair bit of experimental stretching. https://github.com/pcarrier/forms/blob/main/README.md
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WinnerWind cool! not really sure what it's for though
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[pcarrier] WinnerWind: parsing escaped byte sequences is slow, decimal number systems are incredibly inefficient, I want columnar representations and string deduplication in many/most contexts
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[pcarrier] WinnerWind: it's just the underlying formats for a stupid concatenative programming language. https://formic.id. Don't expect more than a very partial and mindblowingly inefficient runtime
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WinnerWind oh wow, the examples are difficult to read
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[pcarrier] LOL even `if` is https://github.com/pcarrier/forms/blob/main/src/stork.stor in terms of constructing and looking up into a array, again it's really just a pile of thought experiments addressed mostly at myself and people who like toy concat languages, wouldn't recommend spending time on it.
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[pcarrier] the basic formats though, totally something I'd consider reusing/taking inspiration from, if I wanted to build textual formats other than JSON and the like in the future
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WinnerWind i hate JSON. i've been enjoying YAML a lot though, even if i dislike that the indent is two spaces and not a tab character
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WinnerWind i hate space based indents
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[tantek] JSON has some problematic limitations for text content especially in the area of internationalization (multi script strings) so it's not great for human content. Ironically HTML is higher fidelity than JSON
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[pcarrier] not gonna start trolling on YAML, but it's a very very complex format with a lot of gotchas, I'd consider HJSON/JSON5 if you want better human authoring without carrying all its complexity
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[tantek] pcarrier there's a fuzzy area between text punctuation and markup where there are interesting possibilities
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WinnerWind oh im not using JSON for human authoring, just for config files and stuff
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WinnerWind speaking of JSON, im writing a script to download images form a website and i saw that the website sends back compliant HTML as part of a JSON request, if ound that very funny because it made my work 10x easier
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[tantek] That's why so many of us refer to CMoS around here, as documentation of "normal" text spacing and punctuation semantics
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[pcarrier] what is CMoS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CMoS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "CMoS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[pcarrier] [tantek] I'm super curious about the limitations of JSON for i18n, if you have links/a short blurb
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[tantek] CMoS is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicago_Manual_of_Style a reference for "normal" use of text spacing and punctuation to convey semantics that several in the indieweb community often use and refer to.
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Loqi ok
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[tantek] pcarrier I need to look it up but the JSON strings i18n limitations are perhaps the number one issue from the W3C i18n WG
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[artlung] The quality of JSON that makes it trickier for a LLMS to make it correctly I like. I _appreciate_ Markdown but consider it a knock on Markdown that LLM tools prefer it.
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[pcarrier] frontier models have pretty much no problem writing valid JSON 99.999% of the time FWIW. it's typically used by agents for tool calls through native model API integration
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[pcarrier] you might run into issues when writing JSON in something inside a tool call, but that's more struggling with layers of escaping than anything else (3+ levels deep is very hard for humans too 🙂)
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[tantek] pcarrier see https://w3c.github.io/i18n-discuss/notes/i18n-action-612.html for some clues
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[artlung] I'm happy to be corrected on JSON handling by _the tools that we always are talking about._
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[artlung] Also, I was unaware that Google Colab is "Jupyter Notebooks but free" https://thoughts.uncountable.uk/working-with-colab/
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[artlung] (free and under Google's umbrella)
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[pcarrier] yeah they have a generous free tier, and will happily bill you for compute past that
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[pcarrier] as the name suggests it's a very easy way to share as well, it's like jupyter+git+github in one silo
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WinnerWind good news, i have finally migrated all my server applicatins to Docker
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WinnerWind wohoo me :)
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WinnerWind i only have to do NGINX now, and frankly a part of me doesn't even want to do NGINX but i'll sleep on it
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[pcarrier] might caddy be a good substitute for your needs?
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jak2k I enjoy using caddy but I've also heard of other having weird issues with it. What's really annoying is that you have to compile it yourself to get some advanced features.
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jak2k aaronpk: Do you still plan finishing indieauth.rocks or should I read the spec very carefully and test my server with existing clients?
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tellroboxer So I am new to CSS but I was able to make a simple home page for my blog with a basic navbar and a text based welcome message. I was too young to have experienced most of the old web as I was born in 2001 . I have no idea how these old style websites are made in html5 and in general I am relatively new to the idea of the indie web
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aaronpk jak2k: I never got very far on it but I would like to actually build it some day
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gRegor I'm working on some indiebookclub posting UI updates and would appreciate any feedback: https://gregorlove.com/2026/05/im-working-on/