#meta 2018-04-16

2018-04-16 UTC
[miklb], AngeloGladding, [eddie], tantek, [cleverdevil], [kevinmarks], red-key, sebsel, jeremycherfas, filippos1, [jgmac1106] and [colinwalker] joined the channel
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aaronpk the mystery pingbacks to the wiki continue to confuse me
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sknebel confusing why?
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aaronpk i don't understand how they're getting verified
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aaronpk one is a doodle.com link, another is a russian forum
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sknebel weird. probably no easy way to selectively log the fetched content?
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aaronpk they have all been to the same target URL so i could match that and wait for another one
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aaronpk in other webmention mysteries, i continue to be unable to send webmentions to adactio, tho it somehow works from curl
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aaronpk ah, telegraph is setting an Accept header
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aaronpk conneg strikes again
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sknebel and adactio's site is checking if it can reply in that format, and fails since it can't?
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sknebel or just trips somehow on the header
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aaronpk i got back a 406 response. he said he tweaked some apache setting recently
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aaronpk so i think it's happening at the web server layer rather than in his code
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sknebel what accept-header does telegraph send?
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aaronpk application/json
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aaronpk now it sends application/json, */*;q=0.8
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[aaronpk] Test thread
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: it just shows up like a normal message in IRC
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aaronpk ^^
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sknebel yes, but people occasionally use it intentionally to reply to older messages, and that context is lost
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aaronpk yea, but the same happens in IRC :)
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sknebel yes, but then you know you need to provide the context of what you are addressing
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aaronpk if i could turn off threading on slack i would, but there doesn't seem to be a setting for it
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[jgmac1106] Sorry did not know there was meta channel. I think the answer is just go back to IRC
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aaronpk haha no slack is fine
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[jgmac1106] Yeah once all the Mozilla groups migrated to 37 unofficial Telegram channels and more than a few too many private and secret Slack channels I stopped using IRC. Having that, Slack, and Telegram open was too much
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[jgmac1106] I mean most Mozilla Telegram channels have similar IRC cross posting bots but I like Stickerz
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grantcodes Thinking about improving the post type wiki pages.
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grantcodes Does the wiki support some sort of tabbed ui or something
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grantcodes Something like how you will sometimes see code examples and can switch between languages
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aaronpk hm i don't think we have any precedent for that yet
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aaronpk could be done with some JS in a template
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grantcodes Hmm I'll have a mess around.
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grantcodes Is there a way to make draft pages? Or something just to experiment with
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aaronpk yeah go nuts creating pages under your user page
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/User:Aaronparecki.com/Test/Foo
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aaronpk that makes it clear you aren't intending others to edit that just yet
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grantcodes Ah cool, will do that
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grant.codes created /User:Grant.codes/post-type-markup-experiment (+22187) "Created page with "[[Category:PostType]] <span style="float:right;height:128px;font-size:128px;margin:0 0 -64px">📷</span> <h1 style="color:red">This is just a test to improve the post type p..."" (view diff)
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grant.codes created /Template:codetabs (+4102) "Add initial example of code tabs template" (view diff)
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tantek hey mark your calendars, I got an email announcing Decentralized Web Summit 2018 by Internet Archive on Aug 1-2
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[kevinmarks] do sign up for more ino too
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tantek kevinmarks we need to rearch out and make sure indieweb is better represented on the brainstorming/dev day (assuming they do it again)
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tantek last time it was sadly lacking in folks who actually build and use their own stuff they've built
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tantek who's excited for tea time on Wednesday?
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-04-18-homebrew-website-club (+51) "Portland joint meeting with Microblog community" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-04-18-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* San Francisco */ indie event" (view diff)
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tantek chrisaldrich: what does Conway's law have to do with /plurality? Why a see also?
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[eddie] tantek: see Indieweb channel. He and I were just talking about it
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[eddie] (A little)
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tantek ah I saw it - sounds more #indieweb-meta than actual indieweb
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tantek ugh they're misstating it
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tantek that podcast citation of Conway's law is butchering it
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tantek it has to do with *organizational* structures, and how their org divisions create architectural divisions
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tantek nothing to do with designing for yourself or groups like you
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tantek which is what their rant i
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tantek s
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[kevinmarks] oh, misread the link - I thought that was to the TWiT discussion I had last week
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tantek chrisaldrich: I found a place for your Conway's law links
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grant.codes edited /User:Grant.codes/post-type-markup-experiment () "(-21436) Update to show better example of tabbed code preview" (view diff)
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grantcodes Ok so that is kind of a basic example of how I think post type pages could be shown
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grantcodes https://indieweb.org/User:Grant.codes/post-type-markup-experiment
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grantcodes The main thing being examples of how to mark up the html with mf2, and the mf2 json for micropub
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aaronpk whoaaaa amazing
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grantcodes I'm also thinking it would be good to show a screenshot of a well rendered example
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grantcodes TIL mediawiki markup is a bitch
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aaronpk haha yes
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schmarty grantcodes++ that looks super good, though!
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Loqi grantcodes has 1 karma in this channel (17 overall)
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schmarty do mediawiki macros support multiline content inside them?
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grantcodes Whatever I did seems to work with multiline stuff
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tantek wait what how do those tabs work
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grantcodes A bit of js
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grantcodes Will render fine without js too, just one after the other
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tantek ok that's pretty cool
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tantek !tell chrisaldrich this whole section, since Conway's law was on your mind: https://indieweb.org/antipatterns#design_for_silos_or_enterprise
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] I did a bit like that in http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
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[kevinmarks] you can do it without js but it is a bit devious
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grantcodes [kevinmarks]: That's pretty much what I wanted to do but it's difficult in the wiki
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grantcodes Yeah possible with css but I think you need to use ids, so it would break if there was more than one
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grantcodes I wonder how hard it would be to write a plugin that could just accept html / json and automatically parse it and output the other formats
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[kevinmarks] you can do id swapping more simply if you mess wiht the url
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aaronpk grantcodes: interesting, that seems doable. plugins can be run only on save so it wouldn't be re-parsing each pageload.
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aaronpk that would also save the trouble of making that template syntax each time
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grantcodes Yeah and with this current example I could see people updating the html but forgetting about the json or something
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grant.codes edited /Template:codetabs (+980) "Add example of how to use the template" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] that was exactly what I found in the schema examples
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[kevinmarks] the JSON-LD had much less info in
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grantcodes I'm having a quick attempt at writing an extension, hopefully it works
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grantcodes Welp, I have an extension written (that may or may not work) but the hard part is actually running mediawiki...
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upon2020.com edited /Events (+435) "Added Linuxfest talk" (view diff)
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tantek watching https://www.ted.com/talks/jaron_lanier_how_we_need_to_remake_the_internet which has some good quotes like "what started out as advertising turned into behavior modification"
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tantek and "I can't call these things social networks any more, I call them behavior modification empires"
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tantek what is a social network
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "social network" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "social network is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek social network is /social_media
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk grantcodes: whoa!
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aaronpk Well if you can run php stuff it's pretty easy to get going. Download the zip and it has its own installer
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grantcodes I tried the vagrant box and failed so far
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tantek social network << 2018-04-10 TED Conference: https://www.ted.com/talks/jaron_lanier_how_we_need_to_remake_the_internet <blockquote>"what started out as advertising turned into behavior modification"</blockquote>...<blockquote>"I can't call these things social networks any more, I call them behavior modification empires"</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-04-10 TED Conference: https://www.ted.com/talks/jaron_lanier_how_we_need_to_remake_the_internet <blockquote>"what started out as advertising turned into behavior modification"</blockquote>...<blockquote>"I can't call these things social networks any more, I call them behavior modification empires"</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /social_media https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=46929&oldid=46852
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tantek what is an ad
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ad" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ad is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is advertising
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Loqi advertising is a common business-model for websites, especially silos, but also on some IndieWeb sites https://indieweb.org/advertising
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tantek ad is /advertising
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Loqi ok
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tantek advertising << 2017-09 TEDGlobal NYC: https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dystopia_just_to_make_people_click_on_ads
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-09 TEDGlobal NYC: https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dystopia_just_to_make_people_click_on_ads" to the "See Also" section of /advertising https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=46931&oldid=44854
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tantek.com edited /Events (-4) "move first half April events to recent" (view diff)
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tantek what is delete your account?
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Loqi delete your account is an encouragement to delete your (silo) account, e.g https://indieweb.org/delete_your_account
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tantek delete your account << 2018-05-29 book by Jaron Lanier: [https://www.amazon.com/Arguments-Deleting-Social-Media-Accounts/dp/125019668X/ Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now Hardcover]
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-05-29 book by Jaron Lanier: [https://www.amazon.com/Arguments-Deleting-Social-Media-Accounts/dp/125019668X/ Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now Hardcover]" to the "See Also" section of /delete_your_account https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=46934&oldid=46175
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grantcodes Ok getting there! The extention works and parses html into mf2 json
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tantek what was Hipstamatic
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Hipstamatic" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Hipstamatic is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek found this relating Instagram vs Hipstamatic (which came earlier) and was wondering if there were any parallel lessons to be learned their for the indieweb: http://platformed.info/startup-suicide-why-startups-fail-feature-creep-overload-instagram-hipstamatic/
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tantek NextDoor << https://twitter.com/bestofnextdoor
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/bestofnextdoor" to the "See Also" section of /Nextdoor https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=46935&oldid=46925
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