#meta 2018-04-20

2018-04-20 UTC
jjuran, [jgmac1106], [kevinmarks], chrisaldrich, [chrisaldrich], tantek and petermolnar joined the channel; petermolnar left the channel
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calumryan.com edited /Events (+27) "/* May */ List London" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re created /events/2018-05-01-homebrew-website-club (+3410) "https://upcoming.org/event/homebrew-website-club-baltimore-s2yzzstiy8" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2018-05-01-homebrew-website-club (-18) "/* What */" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2018-05-01-homebrew-website-club (+58) "/* Blog Posts */ twitter announce" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /Events (+387) "/* May */ HWC Baltimore May 1" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+47) "2018-05-01 HWC Baltimore" (view diff)
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schmarty ^^ sorry for all the edits, folks. it takes a lot of pages to put a one-off HWC into the wiki! 😬
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Zegnat Not a problem at all!
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Zegnat Actually ...
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Zegnat schmarty++ for updating next hwc links!
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Loqi schmarty has 18 karma in this channel (77 overall)
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ben_thatmustbeme friend pointed out one bit of weirdness, first time he logged in to the wiki, it still says 'log in' at the top
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message on 2018-02-03 at 12:41am UTC: could you add your preferences here? https://indieweb.org/2018/Planning#Possible_Dates
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ben_thatmustbeme and he thought it didn't work
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aaronpk that's odd, it shouldn't
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Zegnat Oh, I have had that happen too. Thought mostly on the homepage.
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aaronpk the home page is kinda funny how it works. maybe it's a caching thing
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gRegorLove I forgot to mention after IWC Baltimore but the "Log in" link doesn't appear on the homepage < 720px resolution
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gRegorLove Had difficulty logging in on my phone
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gRegorLove The "Main page" nav is over the logo in that resolution range too
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aaronpk feel free to fix! all the css is on the page
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+306) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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tantek hey welcome back ben_thatmustbeme
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wwsean08.com created /User:Wwsean08.com (+62) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">[https://wwsean08.com/ Sean Smith]</span>"" (view diff)
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tantek what is this week
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Loqi This Week in the IndieWeb is a weekly digest of activities of the IndieWeb community https://indieweb.org/this-week
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tantek kind of meta, kind of dev (so starting here), /Projects has for a long time needed some wiki-gardening love, and beyond the to-do list there to fix / update it, I'm wondering what are people's thoughts and what purpose the /Projects could / should serve
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tantek both curious about what it *could* do aspirationally, and what it *should* to in terms of focus, usability, appeal to new developers joining the community etc.
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aaronpk i've always thought of it as a place to go to find software you can install to use for your website (as an aspirational goal)
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tantek Yes I agree that makes sense as a inclusive scoping, but not exclusive
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tantek for example in thinking about https://indieweb.org/this-week-in-the-indieweb#Ideas, I realized /Projects should probably link to not just CMS-like projects but also key building block projects like mf2 parsers
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aaronpk tho over time, it's become apparent that there are useful related projects that are not just a CMS, like webmention.io to receive webmentions, or now a microsub server or client
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tantek maybe also key projects like link-rel parsers
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tantek right
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aaronpk hm I think things like parsers are better for a "libraries" list rather than "projects"
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tantek key projects you can install and *use*, and perhaps also key projects you can build with
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aaronpk I tend to think of "projects" as more full-featured, or having some UI aspect to them
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tantek hmm
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aaronpk or in different terms, I would expect to see things usable by gen2 on a "projects" page
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tantek I'm thinking of the developer that comes to /Projects looking for *either* a project to install, or, if they don't find one, is curious what building blocks projects they could use to build something of their won
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tantek their *own
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tantek very little is usable by gen2 currently IMO :/
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aaronpk aspirationally :)
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tantek like is gen2 expected to understand command lines?
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tantek aaronpk, I think of Projects as something "in progress" that is being "worked on"
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aaronpk right, I would not expect things that require a command line or writing code on /projects
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tantek whereas, "Tools" I expect to be things you can immediately use
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aaronpk haha I kind of think the opposite
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tantek whoa
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aaronpk tools being things you use to build things
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tantek well that's true too
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tantek are pens and pencils "tools"?
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tantek is a typewriter a "tool"?
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aaronpk I would think so yeah
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tantek so to expand your statement, perhaps s/build/make
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aaronpk here's what i'm thinking of aspirationally when I think of the /Projects page: https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-04-20-15-47-42-e8ENI75Y95.jpg
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tantek and blog posts being one of the things you can use tools to make
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aaronpk thi sis dreamhost's list of one-click installs
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tantek what do they call them? I doubt they call them "projects" or "tools"
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aaronpk they have multiple names in the UI lol
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aaronpk "One-Click Installs", "Applications", "Apps"
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aaronpk full page for context https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-04-20-15-49-49-aegcTsRjun.jpg
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gRegorLove what is tools?
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Loqi Here are some tools that are helpful for building and debugging an IndieWeb site https://indieweb.org/tools
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tantek Right! Apps are not the same as Projects!
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tantek Apps are the gen2+ installable and usable thing. Projects are the code behind them, and Tools help with building and debugging.
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tantek I would be ok with that kind of a three part split
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tantek what are Applications
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Applications" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Applications is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what are apps
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Loqi Apps are less functional versions of web sites that are usually restricted to one or more proprietary platforms https://indieweb.org/apps
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tantek heh
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tantek I think it's time to move that page to "native apps"
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tantek aaronpk, you have unlisted posts right? could you add a better description for your site as an example? /unlisted#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk done
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colinwalker.blog edited /User:Colinwalker.blog (-81) "Updated to reflect changes." (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa a spam blog ripped off my post from the godaddy blog and removed the author credit, and then *also* sent a pingback to all the indieweb wiki pages I linked to in the post!
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tantek oh that got posted!
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tantek how did I miss it in the newsletter
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Loqi misses it in the newsletter too
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tantek clearly Loqi, the entire section is missing!
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tantek oh wow nothing new in indiewnews in the past week!
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tantek I feel like Loqi should warn us when that happens :)
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aaronpk ohh i forgot to submit that to indienews
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aaronpk next week i guess
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tantek link?
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aaronpk https://www.godaddy.com/garage/an-indieweb-reader-my-new-home-on-the-internet/
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tantek been looking forward to this one!
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aaronpk me too!
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tantek oh no you used "algorithmic timelines"!
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tantek :P
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tantek what is algorithmic timeline
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Loqi algorithmic timeline (sometimes non-chronological timeline) is a doublespeak phrase propagated by silos (and some popular media) to refer to social media algorithmic feed feature(s), as a timeline is "a display of a list of events in chronological order"[1], whereas silos now (since 2016+) use "timeline" to refer to often out of chronological order display of aggregations of following's posts which still presentationally resemble previous chronologically ordered displays https://indieweb.org/algorithmic_timeline
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk it's a pretty common term even if it's technically inaccurate
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tantek I know, I put citations in the article ^^^
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tantek alternatively this is also a common term:
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tantek what is algorithmic feed
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Loqi algorithmic feed (AKA algorithm-driven feed or just algorithm feed) is a more correct term for the "algorithmic timeline" lie, and an increasingly common feature on social media silos such as Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, where they show only some posts from your followings, as well as show some posts only hours or days after they were posted, thus not in chronological order https://indieweb.org/algorithmic_feed
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tantek also with citations
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tantek at least put scare quotes around it like "algorithmic timelines"
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tantek "For the most part, RSS readers have failed to adapt to the changes in how we create and consume content online. "
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tantek except no need to qualify with "For the most part" - they all have
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aaronpk btw i didn't choose the pull quotes, that was their editor :)