#meta 2018-08-14

2018-08-14 UTC
strugee, jjuran, eli_oat, [jgarber], jgmac1106, [jgmac1106], steven23, elimisteve, APLU17 and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich] With the #bridgy channel archived someone might want to redirect the bridgy Twitter mentions into one of the existing other channels for support which was one of its few uses.
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aaronpk Oh yea thanks
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aaronpk I knew I was forgetting something
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robertvanbregt.nl edited /User:Robertvanbregt.nl (-8) "/* Learning by Following */" (view diff)
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robertvanbregt.nl edited /User:Robertvanbregt.nl (+118) "/* WordPress */" (view diff)
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polytechnic.co.uk edited /2018/Oxford (+63) "Location confirmed" (view diff)
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polytechnic.co.uk edited /Planning (+66) "/* Oxford */" (view diff)
[pfefferle], jeremych_, christel2, [kevinmarks], [jgmac1106], marcoslater, [metbril], Lausefuchs18, Minkar, fkz, Evel-Knievel24, eli_oat, tantek__, lstanley18, eli_oat1 and Guest12678 joined the channel
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jmac.org edited /User:Jmac.org (+272) (view diff)
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aaronpk unfortunately there was no new spam last night, so that didn't put Loqi's new adaptive filtering to the test
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aaronpk this spam has all been the same message repeated from the last day
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Zegnat aaronpk, I’ll take it, no new spam getting launched at the network is good
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aaronpk yeah but it'll happen again
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aaronpk i'm gonna be on a plane most of tomorrow
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aaronpk hoping I can op Kaja and have sknebel write some new rules if needed
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aaronpk I need an IRC cheat sheet
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aaronpk oh there is one already https://indieweb.org/IRC#Advanced_.2F_Admin_notes
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[schmarty] train tickets booked for IWC NYC!
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[schmarty] i'll be coming up wednesday night and heading out sunday morning.
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aaronpk 🎉
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106]: any logistics things i can help with? i have a streaming rig and some of the standard consumables like colorful post-its, IWC stickers, sharpies.
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[jgmac1106] @schmarty Yes on helping me with streaming rigs. If you want to start hounding for $100-300 sponsors. Be awesome. Once class is over and my grant done I will have more bandwidth
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[jgmac1106] @schmarty I have a bunch of black magic cameras a tricaster mini and all the requisite equipment to set it up... But no f'ing idea how
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boffosocko.com edited /Template:WordPress (+60) "Refback plugin; deprecation notice on Webmention for comments" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /Template:WordPress (+43) "Aperture plugin link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-08-decentralized-web-summit (+33) "/* See Also */ dwebsummit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-08-01-decentralized-web-summit (+237) "add articles with computing.co.uk" (view diff)
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gRegorLove when is next-hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup was on 2018-08-08 at Virtual on CET https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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gRegorLove adds 08-22 event page
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gRegorLove Zegnat, sknebel: vHWC on the 22nd?
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gRegorLove I'm going to add it; can always comment it out later.
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gregorlove.com created /events/2018-08-22-homebrew-website-club (+9917) "stub from https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=events/2018-08-08-homebrew-website-club&diff=prev&oldid=50409" (view diff)
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gRegorLove when is next hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2018-08-22 at Virtual on CET https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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sknebel gRegorLove: thanks for adding, will be there
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+1) "mv August event that's passed" (view diff)
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gRegorLove jgmac1106__, FYI, your Blogging 101s on /events are commented out; need a wiki page for them before we can show them correctly on there, at least with the one-day-event template
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gRegorLove Manual h-event markup is an alternative
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+520) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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sknebel aaronpk: Kaja says thanks for the additional trust
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sknebel (can't be bothered to have it say it itself from my phone 😉)
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aaronpk haha
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sknebel (which somhow reminds me Kaja still needs an avatar)
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sknebel Kaja << you need an avatar
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Loqi ok, I added "you need an avatar" to a brand new "See Also" section of /User:Kaja.sknebel.net https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50897&oldid=50485
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loqi.me edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net (+38) "sknebel added "you need an avatar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek__ so this: https://twitter.com/danielsouza/status/1029467640534851584
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@danielsouza @jeffsussna This is a brilliant idea with potential to solve this problem, but needs a lot of effort in order to remove all the nerdiness https://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1029467640534851584)
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tantek__ There are aspects where he's not wrong
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tantek__ We did a pretty big revision of the homepage in 2014, and a big update including reskinning in 2016
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tantek__ It's reasonable to do another update of the home page this year (2018)
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tantek__ with everything we've learned as well as the growth of the community and new services like micro.blog
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tantek__ I'd like to do at least a draft of this (homepage update) during IWC NYC at a minimum as a indieweb.org/2018/NYC/Leaders session to start with, and possibly a session on IWC NYC day 1
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tantek__ Who else would be interested?
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calumryan.com edited /events/2018-08-22-homebrew-website-club (+8) "/* London */" (view diff)
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jgmac1106__ +1
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gRegorLove I'd be interested to hear what nerdiness they think should be removed.
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calumryan +1 to homepage update session (if remote participation is possible)
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Loqi calumryan: tantek__ left you a message on 2018-07-04 at 2:25am UTC: or if you'd like to propose an IndieWeb session for MozFest, feel free to use me as a Mozilla reference (tcelik @ mozilla) and note that I encouraged you to propose session(s)!
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tantek__ gRegorLove: all us of jargon is nerdiness that can potentially be removed
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[eddie] +1 (remote, same as calumryan)
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gRegorLove Not saying there isn't any; just curious outside perspectives.
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Zegnat It would be nice if we can get some fresh eyes to check out the homepage and help "debug" its contents for sure.
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gRegorLove Homepage "Join #indieweb chat" and "real-time log" links both end up at chat.indieweb.org now. Maybe one could be to /discuss, or just minimize it to one link.
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[eddie] So I have a question. Do we see HWCs or IWCs the primary in-person entrance into the IndieWeb? The name "Homebrew Website Club" strikes me as particularly jargon-ey. But if IWCs are seen as a primary front door it might not be as big of a deal.
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tantek.com edited /2018/NYC/Leaders (+895) "/* What */ home page update (+1s from IRC), bold other possible sessions" (view diff)
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[eddie] Yes it is
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[iambismark] HWC is homage to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club, yah?
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[eddie] Which is a great homage, but definitely leads to "nerdiness" by definition
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[iambismark] i suppose that hasn’t quite seeped far enough in to popular culture…
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gRegorLove Leaders ideas are going into separate pages again. I thought they were supposed to be added to /Leaders#Issues
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[eddie] I had never heard of Homebrew Computer Club before coming into the IndieWeb and I am a HUGE Apple nerd. I just had never really paid attention to the name of the club that it started in
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sknebel is "homebrew" in that sense not common US english usage?
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gRegorLove Not outside of beer, I would say
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[eddie] Correct
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gRegorLove Personal Website Club?
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sknebel TIL
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[eddie] A replacement term will likely be VERY difficult to come up with. haha, definitely not suggesting we find a new name in the chat 🙂 Just that we might want to consider putting a possible HWC rename onto the "to do" list
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gRegorLove Naming things is easy! :)
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[eddie] 🤣
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[jgmac1106] [calumryan] going to try and schedule leaders in morning to maximize participation. Being on the East Coast makes remote from EU possible... Sorry @mrkndvs and others in Aussie... Can't get up that early
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tantek__ I'm personally ok with renaming the more informal IndieWeb meetups from HWC to something else
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tantek__ and yes, Homebrew Computer Club could be considered a nerdy reference
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[jgmac1106] I like my Blogging 101...but I was trying to indicate it is at super basic level
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[jgmac1106] People get scared away from HWCs sometimes when the Convo starts with, "Well I added a new endpoint to my Jekyll site so I can host image files on GitHub...."
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tantek__ [jgmac1106]: OTOH even if keeping such dev-conversations alive (i.e. being inclusive of them) is all we do, that's still useful
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tantek__ also, while renaming is a challenge, another thing to consider is, no other group, effort, or project in this broader space has so many meetups in so many cities
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tantek__ so, while HWC is superficially nerdy, in practice it has also brought lots of people together, and continues to do so.
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tantek__ any replacement should kind of have to prove itself first IMO
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tantek__ I.e. it's easy to be attracted by the hopes of a theoretical unproven alternative as compared to the real-world proven but with known limitations existing working system
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gRegorLove True. Do we know of examples where someone decided not to show up based on the name, or came but were intimidated by it?
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[iambismark] TBH I go to HWC for the nerdy dev conversations…
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[eddie] Absolutely. HWC is extremely successful, I think the primary issue is the name/marketing of it. While we can incrementally tweak the meetings themselves in regard to the dev-conversations, I think the meetings themselves are pretty successful.
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[eddie] I think the two main things that come to mind is 1) This is brought up because of homepage discussions. As you scroll down the page the first of two primary ways to get in-person interaction is listed as something that name-wise might turn someone away that could be interested in getting involved via Wordpress or Micro.blog, etc. 2) “success covers a multitude of blunders” just because something is successful doesn’t mean there aren’t t
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[eddie] order to make it more successful.
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[eddie] It’s really the same conversation we had about the principles page at the summit this year. Does HWC target makers of anything or makers of indieweb technology
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[eddie] We could say HWC is about creating an environment for those building indieweb technology, in which case everything is fine as is
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[eddie] or we could determine HWC is for makers of anything, and continue to iteratively tweak it (potentially even the name) similar to how we are iteratively tweaking the principles page to apply to makers of anything.
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[eddie] </rant> 😄
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[eddie] gives Loqi a soapbox
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Loqi crushes the soapbox
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[eddie] 👏
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[iambismark] I’m reminded of the Mac User Group I used to go to while in university… at the time Macs were still “niche” and it was helpful to have a support group to help navigate a Windows-first world. That group is now gone because Macs are no longer niche on campus. I think of HWC the same way: its helpful to have a support group while we’re still the little guys, but our goal should be to make IndieWeb so mainstream that HWC become obsol
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[iambismark] these are nerd heavy meetups because we’re the ones working on the technology to make this stuff mainstream.
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[jgmac1106] I dig the name, just offering what I do. Just sometimes offer HWC: Blogging 101 to differentiate for audience
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[jgmac1106] I also think there is a role for signifiers of history like the Hombrew Website Club... Provides historical reference and "insiderness"... So I was playing more devils advocate
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[jgmac1106] [gregorlove] only reference I have is with remote HWC and thats its own beast... Still love the idea of reviewing homepage at /leaders NYC and then Goins live at /leaders Berlin
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tantek__ gRegorLove: did I mess that up? /2018/NYC/Leaders vs /Leaders ?
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gRegorLove I think we decided new issues on /Leaders
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tantek__ I lost track of where we decided / captured how to use each, so my intuition was to add to /2018/NYC/Leaders what in particular I thought was important / urgent for *that* leaders meetup, in contrast to capturing /Leaders related discussion topics in particular
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gRegorLove I don't have a strong opinion about it. It does seem to make sense to put it on the specific Leaders event.
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gRegorLove For /2018/Leaders I think the confusion was copy-paste in the "Sessions" section from 2017, then people proposed new sessions on top of that. Plus we had other new issues on /Leaders at that point.
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tantek__ https://indieweb.org/Leaders#Issues is also a bit vague
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gRegorLove I split those out pretty well before 2018 LS, then added /2018/Leaders#Next_Time for the things we proposed that day but didn't get to.
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tantek__ "Collect issues here until a specific agenda page for the event is created "
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tantek__ but now that page is created: /2018/NYC/Leaders
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tantek__ so...
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tantek__ add them there now?
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gRegorLove heh
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tantek__ I don't have a strong opinion either, we should just try to make it clearer. maybe. IDK :)
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gRegorLove There's the line I added /2018/NYC/Leaders#Sessions "Please review 2018/Leaders#Next_Time and propose new topics on Leaders#Issues." but that's way down the page, so understandable stuff was added under "What"
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tantek__ [iambismark]: I appreciate your nerdy conversations and especially demos :)
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tantek__ [eddie]: good points.