#meta 2019-10-18

2019-10-18 UTC
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@matthillco ↩️ @scalzi Indeed!: https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1184986189058772992)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
[Lewis_Cowles], [xavierroy], [snarfed]1, [tantek], [Rose], [frank] and jeremycherfas joined the channel
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@nhoizey Plusieurs personnes m’ont suggéré de proposer à d’autres événements la conférence que j’ai donnée la semaine dernière à #ParisWeb au sujet de #IndieWeb et #POSSE. Je l’ai déjà donnée, les slides et la vidéo sont en ligne, donc est-ce réellement utile ? https://talks.nicolas-hoizey.com/AXGNM8/ne-vous-laissez-plus-deposseder-de-vos-contenus (twitter.com/_/status/1185087831884156929)
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[tantek] lolol https://myspacebook.info/ is hilarious
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[tantek] zachleat++
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Loqi zachleat has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] [zachleat]++ I mean 🙂
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tantek.com edited /service_worker (+876) "add minimal Why and How to sections" (view diff)
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[jeremycherfas] I wish I were already in Brighton rather than facing a day of trains and planes.
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[tantek] well I'm facing a morning of ~90-120 minutes of trains so I feel part of that
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[tantek] I still think the fastest LHR-BTN route by rain is Heathrow Express to Paddington, Circle line to VIC, train VIC to BTN
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[tantek] which Google Maps *does not* show you as an option because they'd rather you take the slower way taking the tube from LHR all the way into central London
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aaronpk I should have done that yesterday
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Loqi yea
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk edited /OfflineFirst (-392) "Redirected page to [[offline first]]" (view diff)
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk edited /offline_first (+228) "Move content from accidental duplicate into this. Sorry Tantek" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+1176) (view diff)
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[tantek] [Lewis_Cowles]++ thanks for the wiki-gardening!
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Loqi [Lewis_Cowles] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+240) "/* Core principles */" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+112) "/* Core principles */" (view diff)
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[tantek] [fluffy] good to cite /MovableType in the /Publ_CMS article for any specific inspirations
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loqi.me created /routing (+162) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [fluffy]" (view diff)
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[fluffy] good idea
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loqi.me created /url (+23) "prompted by [Rose] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+1049) "/* Core principles */" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Symfony (+97) "prompted by [Rose] and dfn added by [Rose]" (view diff)
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[Lewis_Cowles] `routing` is a term that refers to ensuring well-structured requests are met with the desired, perhaps expected content.
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[Lewis_Cowles] ?
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tantek.com edited /uri (+352) "update with actual definition, context and URL standard citation for why we don't bother with URI any more" (view diff)
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[grantcodes] 🤔 maybe the slack bridge should skip mentioning you if you sent a tell?
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tantek.com created /URL (+24) "r until a better use" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+19) (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+72) "/* Core principles */" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /IRI (+16) "prompted by [Rose] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Publ_CMS (+328) (view diff)
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[tantek] well that's an interesting newsletter duplicate bug
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aaronpk hmm I would lean the other way on that... Loqi's !tell is unnecessary for slack users since they have scrollback and also can get a push notification
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next HWC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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[fluffy] I ended up missing the notification from [grantcodes] in #indieweb-dev two days ago but I suspect he didn’t @-prefix my username
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[fluffy] (and for the record I’d have preferred a native Slack notification)
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[fluffy] I mean in the !tell command
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tantek.com edited /Events (-373) "merge Karlsruhe back in to the single HWC Wednesday entry since it lacks its own page and didn't post any photos this week" (view diff)
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[tantek] hmm Paris Web is showing up again
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[tantek] with photos from last week
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aaronpk Hm technically the event spans both weeks - Oct 10-12, the cutoff is the 11th
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[tantek] so I wonder how to better handle that
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk edited /routing (+1497) "More about routing (may need improvement)" (view diff)
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[Lewis_Cowles] that large edit will probably benefit from feedback
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[Lewis_Cowles] what is routing?
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Loqi routing is a term that refers to ensuring well-structured requests, are met with the desired, perhaps expected content https://indieweb.org/routing
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[Lewis_Cowles] very generic, hopefully not very jargon-y
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@JamieTanna Very excited to be at #oggcamp this weekend, where I'll be sharing the awesome #IndieWeb movement with you all, helping you to own your identity and data - and super excited for all the other great talks at the 10 year anniversary @oggcamp (twitter.com/_/status/1185113526941208578)
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aaronpk I would say routing is the process of mapping a URL to code
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[Lewis_Cowles] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 50 karma in this channel over the last year (192 in all channels)
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[Lewis_Cowles] I take it indieweb is mostly concerned with web-page tech independence?
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[Rose] I like that definition aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 51 karma in this channel over the last year (193 in all channels)
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aaronpk Even more specifically, personal websites
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aaronpk not just websites generally
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aaronpk See also: https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Should_this_be_on_the_wiki
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Ruxton i'd argue you see it as to code, because that's how you use it, but it doesn't need to be to code
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Loqi Ruxton: [jgmac1106] left you a message on 2018-12-05 at 11:07am UTC: yes the idea is we do keynote, intro, demo live... If enough interest we do an Aussie timeslot as well
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Loqi Ruxton: [jgmac1106] left you a message on 2018-12-05 at 11:09am UTC: currently the best we can do in search for magical UTC is 2:30-5:30am depending on your part of the Continent
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Ruxton peers at Loqi..
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Ruxton bit late botbro
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aaronpk Welcome back Ruxton
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[Rose] adactio++ for the entertaining and informational email
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Loqi adactio has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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aaronpk true technically static html files are still routed by the web server like Apache, but that isn't really how people use the term
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[tantek] I'd prefer if we could provide the simplest possible definition that is applicable to the simplest setup, e.g. static files on a server
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[tantek] all the more involved stuff can go later in the page
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aaronpk My point is the term isn't used in the context of the simple case of static files
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[tantek] my point is that terms like "routing" "look up" "discovery" are all vaguely used to mean the same generic thing and it's not at all obvious why one vs the other
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[tantek] or "mapping" for that matter
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aaronpk I feel like routing is something very specific used when talking about large web frameworks
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aaronpk I would never use "look up" as a replacement for "routing" in conversation
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[Rose] I _might_ if I were trying to explain it to someone who has no idea how any of the web works.
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Ruxton cheers
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[tantek] or "URL handling"
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Ruxton i know a stack f non-tech people that would use terms like look up
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[tantek] if routing is code-specific then the definition should mention that and explicitly note that *by default* on web servers there is no "routing" and web servers "just" serve the static file at that location
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aaronpk routing is a very specific jargon term and isn't something I'd use outside the context of programming in a web framework
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[tantek] I don't think it requires a web framework
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aaronpk Again technically not, but the vast majority of the use does
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[tantek] technically I have a "routing" rule in my .htaccess that maps URLs of a certain pattern /YYYY/ permalinks to be handled by my top level falcon.php file
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[tantek] zero frameworks involved
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aaronpk that *is* a kind of framework tho
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[tantek] no there is no abstraction, no framework
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[tantek] .htaccess is a configuration file, not a framework
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aaronpk The flip side is I'm not sure I've seen htaccess rules referred to as routing in any docs
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aaronpk It's usually called rewriting or redirecting
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aaronpk https://help.dreamhost.com/hc/en-us/articles/215747748-How-can-I-redirect-and-rewrite-my-URLs-with-an-htaccess-file-
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[tantek] but it's not a redirect either
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[tantek] as the URL is handled as given
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aaronpk That's the rewrite case
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aaronpk the wiki isn't supposed to have the most theoretically pure definition of terms anyway. It's supposed to have practical definitions in the context of personal websites, so whether something is technically routing isn't really important
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[tantek] yes routing is the feature, RewriteRule is one way to implement routing in Apache
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[tantek] why is it useful to make routing more narrow like only for (some?) frameworks?
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aaronpk I literally never even heard the term until I started using frameworks, and I've been writing htaccess rules for at least a decade before that
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[tantek] I think I first heard it in the context of Rails and it definitely sounded way more complicated than it needed to be
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aaronpk Yeah it's always sounded more complicated for some reason
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[Lewis_Cowles] I think tantek definition fits mine. If I talked about routing ans someone inferred a web application framework, I'd be very upset with them if they continued after being told they are conflating an entire domain with a corner of it
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[Lewis_Cowles] My great grandfather was a switchboard operator for cable and wireless, and my father is a radio ham, so perhaps I am biased in this regard
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[tantek] “Conflating an entire domain with a corner of it” is a useful phrase
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[Lewis_Cowles] We are all guilty of it to some degree. I just prefer the age-old tradition of new words, instead of redefinitions
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aaronpk microsoft's documentation has a good definition: "URL routing allows you to configure an application to accept request URLs that do not map to physical files"
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[tantek] I’d say “rather than” instead of “that do not map to”
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[tantek] Otherwise agreed
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[tantek] Static instead of physical
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aaronpk agreed
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[tantek] I mean, know any web servers that retrieve from physical file cabinets?
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk project idea
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[tantek] oh no
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sebsel I was going to ping sknebel about this indeed :P https://seblog.nl/2019/09/17/1/physical
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] So many times I see developers using the word 'physical' when they are still referring to some virtual thing, just one layer less abstract.
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aaronparecki.com edited /routing (-6) "try a new definition in the context of websites" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] Tantek - if you only have a backpack, biking across Hyde Park from Paddington is quicker.
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[KevinMarks] 2 different rental bike options
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loqi.me created /Rails (+26) "prompted by [Lewis_Cowles] and redirect added by [Lewis_Cowles]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /routing () "(-1173) try simplifying dfn, adding IndieWeb applicability and examples, remove abstractions that didn't help without examples, add link to Wikipedia article for more information" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is routing
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Loqi routing (or URL routing) is a way to configure a website to have some (or all) of its URLs handled by software rather than static files; an IndieWeb site may have no routing (a static site), some routing like one directory handled by PHP or other software, or all URLs handled by a framework like Ruby on Rails with its own routing system https://indieweb.org/routing
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[tantek] ^^^ attempted to incorporate everyone's suggestions to improve the routing dfn
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[tantek] and reduce use of jargon
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[Lewis_Cowles] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 51 karma in this channel over the last year (132 in all channels)
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@susiverse Haven gotten some inspiration at #homebrew website club, I started planning out my own website. Looking forward to our next meet-up! #newdev (twitter.com/_/status/1185156619837071362)
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GWG I am hoping to get some IndieWeb stuff done this weekend
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[manton] For folks in Brighton, a reminder that we have a special IndieWebCamp coupon with 1 year of hosting to help people get started with their own blog: https://micro.blog/indiewebcamp
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[tantek] manton++ woohoo!
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Loqi manton has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (48 in all channels)
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[tantek] microblog++
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Loqi microblog has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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Loqi yay!
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[Rose] Woot woot
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[tantek] hello [Yulia] - we have https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin2 so far for IWC Berlin2!
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin2
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[Yulia] 👍
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[tantek] [Rose] what do we have to do to setup the Tito like we did for Berlin in May?
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[tantek] [calumryan] ETA for Brighton Organizers Meetup?
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[calumryan] [tantek] 14:45
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[tantek] :thumbsup:
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[Rose] I copied the May one and changed the dates.
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[Rose] It's in the account waiting for someone to review it, I can send it to testing.
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[tantek] Aaronpk is testing it
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[tantek] registration
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/93
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by tantek: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/93
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2019.indieweb.org to https://2019.indieweb.org
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[tantek] [Yulia] can you test the page? https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin2
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin2
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[tantek] (and getting a ticket 🙂 )
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2019/Brighton (-18) "No keynote small adjustments" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2019/Brighton (+0) "/* Schedule */ Time adjustments" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2019/Brighton (-4) "/* Schedule */ Lunch split up" (view diff)
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[Yulia] [tantek] looks like it works
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[tantek] did you get a ticket confirmation by email?
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[tantek] NYC looks like it needs a Code of Conduct block and Registrants like https://2019.indieweb.org/nyc
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Loqi IndieWebCamp NYC
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[Yulia] yes i did
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/Brighton (+51) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn created /2019/Brighton/Schedule (+3668) "Start a schedule" (view diff)
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by tantek: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/94
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/Berlin2 (+645) "/* Sessions */ add remote participation" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] are you coming to Brighton?
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[KevinMarks] I'm not I'm afraid
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2019/Brighton/Schedule (+18) "/* Saturday */ Add hackstart" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert Lloyd] are you coming to IndieWebCamp Brighton?
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[tantek] [barryf] are you coming to IndieWebCamp Brighton?
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/94
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2019.indieweb.org to https://2019.indieweb.org
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tantek.com edited /2019/Brighton () "(-604) dropped interested section, move RSVPs to after Schedule" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] If people are going to try micro.blog the arabica and marfa themes are most proper, I am going to try and update more before Brighton
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2019/Brighton/Schedule (+165) "Zoom links" (view diff)
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@jtompl ↩️ @adactio @indiewebcamp Anybody for some beer / sightseeing tonight?;) #indieweb #brighton (twitter.com/_/status/1185214157362270210)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/95
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by RosemaryOrchard: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/95
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2019.indieweb.org to https://2019.indieweb.org
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/96
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by RosemaryOrchard: https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/pull/96
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2019.indieweb.org to https://2019.indieweb.org
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@adactio Planning this weekend’s Indie Web Camp Brighton. Feel free to drop in any time over the weekend: https://indieweb.org/2019/Brighton https://adactio.com/notes/15983 (twitter.com/_/status/1185221916707164161)
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@mtobis ↩️ Aargh. No no no. We had email before google. Anyway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb The non-tech community’s idea of what the internet actually is has been so totally torqued by the silos. Distributed. Peer-to-peer. Network. Dammit. (twitter.com/_/status/1185222416932462594)
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@redecentralize ↩️ look forward to seeing folks from Scuttlebutt, Solid, @evernym @IPFSbot @matrixdotorg @dat_project @mozilla @holochain @indiewebcamp @OKFN @worldbrain @OpenDataService @simplysecureorg @orbit_db, @Peergos & others! Anyone else in town for @mozillafestival we should ping? #MozFest (twitter.com/_/status/1185223514489536512)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Brighton (+21) "/* IndieWebCamps */ adding 2019" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Brighton (+2) "changing count from 5 to 6" (view diff)
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Loqi [[IndieWeb]] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IndieWeb&diff=921892955&oldid=prev 185.65.110.45: IndieWeb is a community, not a software project
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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aaronparecki.com created /2019/Brighton/Introduction (+1268) "Created page with "'''<dfn>IndieWebCamp Brighton 2019 Introduction</dfn>''' is the opening session of [[2019/Brighton|IndieWebCamp Brighton 2019]]. IndieWebCamp organizers will lead you through..."" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/Brighton/Schedule (+143) "/* Saturday */" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn created /2019/Brighton/hackstart (+806) "Created page with "'''<dfn>Hack Start</dfn>''' was a session at [[2019/Brighton|IndieWebCamp Brighton 2019]]. The Hack Start session is a way to get started with ideas gained during the first d..."" (view diff)
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@chrisbergr ↩️ @adactio Spotted a non-MacBook, for the first time in #indieweb context :) (twitter.com/_/status/1185231611446599680)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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aaronparecki.com created /2019/Brighton/Session_Planning (+1098) "Created page with "= Session Planning = # If you have not proposed a session before, you can propose first # Intro to how BarCamp sessions are scheduled #* Sessions are created by the participa..."" (view diff)
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@AndreJaenisch Booh! @yandex is now requiring auth to enter https://webmaster.yandex.com/tools/microtest/ We need an #IndieWeb test tool for #Microformats since https://search.google.com/structured-data/testing-tool sux here (too lax) Yandex at least screamed at you with docs, when you did it wrong. (twitter.com/_/status/1185237628557385730)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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dougbeal.com edited /Events (+462) "/* October */ 30" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com edited /events/2019-10-30-homebrew-website-club (+2) "enable Seattle Oct 30" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-10-18-Brighton-organizers.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-10-18-Brighton-organizers.jpg"
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+413) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/Brighton/Organizers (+182) (view diff)
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[aaronpk] [tantek] I uploaded the photo to the wiki and put it on the page but I'm not at my computer so I don't wanna try turning it into an h-event
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[tantek] just started marking it up!
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[tantek] was looking for your checkin for a start time 🙂
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[tantek] going to round it to 14:30-17:30
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tantek.com edited /2019/Brighton/Organizers (+159) "h-event" (view diff)
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[aaronpk] 👍
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[tantek] now to add it to /event and prune ParisWeb so it doens't duplicate
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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tantek.com edited /Events (+370) "/* October */ Organizers meetup" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+26) "temp prune Paris time since its photos were all from last week" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-10-16-homebrew-website-club (+9) "prune for newsletter" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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@PHPMinds One of our organiser team @JamieTanna and past speaker @anna_hax are at @oggcamp this weekend speaking on #linux and the #indieweb .. if your there let us tell you your in for a treat (twitter.com/_/status/1185293655256514561)
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@ironhelixx Own your content on Social Media using the IndieWeb https://youtu.be/X3SrZuH00GQ via @YouTube (twitter.com/_/status/1185295716505325568)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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loqi.me edited /meetup.com (+70) "[fluffy] added "https://www.meetup.com/lp/paymentchanges?mpId=9038" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-10-18.html https://t.co/REDciUcZHE (twitter.com/_/status/1185318420100763648)
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-10-16-homebrew-website-club (-9) "undo prune" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (-52) "unprune" (view diff)
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GWG Trying to decide if it is worth getting up for demos
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GWG No remote session planning
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GWG So I could sleep in till later
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GWG The first session is 11:40 then you all go to lunch
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