#meta 2019-11-08

2019-11-08 UTC
[chrisbergr], shah^, [fluffy], [tantek] and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tantek] oh! need some WordCamp US photos! hey GWG did you take any?
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GWG [tantek]: Not really, in hindsight.
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[tantek] GWG, perhaps we can grab some from Twitter mentions
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GWG [tantek]: https://twitter.com/PUXL_framework/status/1190758020294287360 - Here are those gentleman we spoke to
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@PUXL_framework #PuxlTour19 The Tantek Çelik (@t) talk was so inspiring and we were lucky to chat some minutes with him and his friend David Shanske (@dshanske). Take Back Your Web ! #WCUS #STL #A11Y #WebDesign #AccessibilityFirst #framework https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIZsG46X0AQSnrz.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1190758020294287360)
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GWG [tantek]: https://twitter.com/jeffpaul/status/1190732909084315649 - This is a nice one
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@jeffpaul So beautiful to see @t present @WordCampUS on @IndieWebLife architectural components coming together to allow us to own our content, keep in touch with those we care about, and no longer be beholden to dehumanizing social platforms. #WCUS #IndieWeb more: http://indieweb.org/start https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIZVREnWsAEXbpR.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1190732909084315649)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-307) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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@janboddez “A tour of my Indieweb projects” https://peterstuifzand.nl/2018/08/15/tour-of-indieweb-projects.html (twitter.com/_/status/1192741256339902466)
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aaronpk Screen cap the livestream!
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[LewisCowles] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 54 karma in this channel over the last year (143 in all channels)
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@IndieWebLife WordPress and IndieWeb: Creating Your Dialtone on the Internet #indieweb https://boffosocko.com/2019/11/03/wordpress-and-indieweb-creating-your-dialtone-on-the-internet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1192770127105810433)
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@bzelip Hi @masnick. Went back to the HN post where you shared your personal knowledge base system, and noticed you're using micro[dot]blog. Have you looked into the Micropub protocol? I've been playing with a JS implementation, and it's pretty cool! https://indieweb.org/Micropub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1192787068180676608)
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[Teresa_Ingram] Hi lovely WebCampers 🙂 my name is Teresa Ingram and I'm founder of Opt Out, an open source set of tools designed to help female identifying people engage with healthy debate online and we're coming to the camp! I'm based here in Berlin and I'd love to help out organizing the Friday night social, just let me know what I need to do.
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[tantek] [Yulia] [Rose] ^^^
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[LewisCowles] Teresa, do you know Morgan?
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@bzelip ↩️ I'm new to #indieweb actions and building blocks. As I understand it, Micropub is mostly a CRUD interface for yourself, where content is updated via any client via IndieAuth, and via metadata on your stuff. Webmention & Microsub deal with syndication I/O. https://indieweb.org/graphics#Illustrations_and_Sketch_Notes (twitter.com/_/status/1192811384993529856)
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@bzelip ↩️ See also POSSE, Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, https://indieweb.org/POSSE #indieweb #posseup (twitter.com/_/status/1192813197595529216)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[jgmac1106] snarfed or anyone know where I can tget the reports on the latest Bridgy stats?
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] search my site 😁 https://snarfed.org/2019-01-02_bridgy-stats-update-4#comment-2731107
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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[snarfed] also https://brid.gy/#stats
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[snarfed] getting close to 1.5M webmentions successfully sent by bridgy alone
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[jgmac1106] thx
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[jgmac1106] snarfed if a person has an instagram account and a twitter account is that two accounts or one?
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[jgmac1106] good operational definition for research snarfed: I also propose the modest criteria that a site is IndieWeb in a technical plumbing sense if it has either microformats2, a webmention endpoint,
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[jgmac1106] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (100 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] trying to get someone to crawl the data again for an update from 2017, be neat, sooo good
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[jgmac1106] just digging into this again. I forget how useful of the tool
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[snarfed] thanks [jgmac1106]!
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[snarfed] bridgy counts accounts per silo, not per person. de-duping across silos is doable sometimes but nontrivial and imperfect
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[snarfed] and i'll happily consider re-crawling if i start to see real users and use cases 😎
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[snarfed] (for the channel, [jgmac1106] is talking about https://indiemap.org/ )
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Loqi Indie Map is a public IndieWeb social graph and dataset. 2300 sites, 5.7M pages, 380GB HTML with microformats2. Social graph API and interac...
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[jgmac1106] okay just for research, just grabbed your annual state of bridgy posts
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[snarfed] jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 53 karma in this channel over the last year (115 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] for now just gonna visualize those by stacking the annual graphs on top of each other and fading into next year
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[snarfed] hah sure
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[jgmac1106] yeah...just met with a researcher from Mozilla Corporation who is doing some work (met at IWC NYC trying to get numbers on our protocols, members, and motivations)
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[snarfed] tantek's annual state of the indiewebs at each IWS might also have stuff. i think more anecdotal though, he uses my stats for stats
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[snarfed] also the homework that went into https://snarfed.org/1-million-webmentions
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[jgmac1106] ...tried to convince them to recrawl for us.....
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[jgmac1106] got all those, we searched your entire blog for bridgy just now
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[snarfed] lol
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[jgmac1106] trying to show that while we have about 700 people active in chat (averaging 2500 messages) the protocls and plumbing, especially Bridgy, used by many more people not actively associated
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[jgmac1106] 2500 a week
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[snarfed] oh definitely
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[snarfed] i mean i did indieweb stuff for years before i ever joined chat
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[jgmac1106] me too, about threee
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[snarfed] chat is a small minority
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The #indieweb concern is building an equivalent to Google maps' location history that isn't in a silo. The stuff Aaron does with Overland and Compass https://aaronparecki.com/gps/ (twitter.com/_/status/1192834238044934145)
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[jgmac1106] couldn't get a clear answer on the goal of the research project, probably bc their isn't one, but it was on the MoCo side of the fence and not MoFo, and from the "future trends" so is meant to inform possible product research rather than just advocacy
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[jgmac1106] snarfed do you keep any stats on granary?
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[jgmac1106] !tell schmarty, jeannie check out all the tweets from @bzelip he is in Baltimore...maybe Marty point him towards folks to get the Meet Up going again
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] not really. like what?
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@scott_gruber Group photo from the CBI and IBAY-SUP Web Design Workshop — Nov 5-7, 2019. https://github.com/congo-basin-institute/web-design-workshop #IndieWeb https://t.co/sJTE9ZrheN (twitter.com/_/status/1192856638220374016)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[jgmac1106] just any numbers in the aggregate, Josephine, the researcher from Mozilla I was looking at was trying to find any indicators of the size of community and building block use we have indymap, the irc logs, chatnames, bridgy sats, just wondered if their granary stats
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[snarfed] ok! indiemap is a good indicator of size of community, if outdated. bridgy is maybe ok. granary probably isn't. still, let me see...
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[jgmac1106] no rush...just curious..even any site analytics....bridgy is our best...and pushing for a new crawl...but 300 gigs in 2017...who knows how big now
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[snarfed] out of curiosity, what do you want a new crawl for? what will you use the data for? just the top line numbers? or...?
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[snarfed] ok, granary stats: its traffic averages around .7 qps, pretty steady. half of that is twitter, quarter is pure format conversion (eg html => atom/rss), quarter other silos and random misc stuff
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[jgmac1106] just top line numbers, my research is more focused on learning..granary not of interest, the Mozilla research project was trying to get a handle on the number of people using the plumbing
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[snarfed] ah ok. yeah crawling again is a ton of effort just to get a few top line numbers. we'd probably need more in depth use cases to justify it
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[snarfed] (should probably also move this to #indieweb or maybe #indieweb-dev)
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[jgmac1106] ...I am interested in te crawling...just not Granary..mainly because the search engine
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[jgmac1106] I'll figure out someway to get it done soon....maybe pitch it as a "wonderful data visualization" chance for students
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[snarfed] ah yeah search is a totally different problem that indiemap's design is entirely inappropriate for
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[jgmac1106] also facilitating a social network analysis MOOC soon...maybe need to work it into curicum...yeah meant more searching the mysql database
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[tantek] Is there a revenue model for search that does not depend on ads?
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[snarfed] honestly i don't think we get any value out of rebuilding search when google and others work. doing it ourselves would be a huge boondoggle
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[snarfed] instead: https://snarfed.org/2018-11-30_indieweb-google-custom-search-engine
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[tantek] nope Google sucks at blog search
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www.jvt.me edited /micropub-endpoint (+77) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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[tantek] they built a crappy (but fast) version of it to compete with Technorati
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[tantek] and then they killed it years later
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[tantek] out of neglect. it was no longer "cool" to work on
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[snarfed] eh even if you can crisply define "blog search," which i'm not sure of, i definitely don't think we should try to build our own
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[snarfed] ROI would be awful
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[tantek] a blog search engine today would absolutely provide better quality results than google
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[snarfed] tantek have you tried https://snarfed.org/2018-11-30_indieweb-google-custom-search-engine ?
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[tantek] snarfed, already been done
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[jgmac1106] the chat logs are decent enough for me to surface what I need as a researcher...
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[tantek] Technorati did tons of prior art/work on defining blog search
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[tantek] no need to reinvent
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[snarfed] great ok
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[jgmac1106] I tried to get my brother in law to build us one....was gonna so his interns had work to do...then they got paying contracts...
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[tantek] point being, it would be *much* cheaper for even a single individual to rebuild the good parts of Technorati today than it was 15 years ago
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[tantek] the hard part is making it sustainable, even just a little
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[tantek] that's why I asked my question about revenue
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[snarfed] moving to #indieweb
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[tantek] and Google wouldn't bother because "blog search" is an old thing
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[tantek] that's not new nor sexy nor going to get anyone promoted. so no one would work on it
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[jgmac1106] this is off from where we started with topline numbers but yeah a community opt-in search engine...you decide what post types to share...yeah not meta
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[tantek] and it's something they already killed. Google doesn't redo killed products except messaging. which they do cyclically
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[tantek] *redo
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[jgmac1106] ha ha
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[jgmac1106] daily
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[tantek] no seriously if you want to build something that Google won't, just look at everything they've killed and redo it but faster, semantic accessible HTML etc. you won't get any competition from them
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[tantek] they have a massive growing blindspot
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@miklb quick update on Jekyll-IndieWeb — I’ll have the demo repo using it as a theme up and running tomorrow evening. I want to use GitHub Actions so can run and build the site with additional plugins but that’s not going to make it into the repo this weekend. (twitter.com/_/status/1192862902514008064)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
gRegorLove joined the channel
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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loqi.me created /carbon.txt (+35) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /green (+28) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /environment (+28) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /low_power (+28) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Upcoming IndieWebCamps */ fix Berlin date" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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@gRegorLove Announcing Homebrew Website Club San Diego https://gregorlove.com/2019/11/announcing-homebrew-website-club-san-diego/ #NaBloPoMo #NaBloPoMo2019 (twitter.com/_/status/1192906933759426560)
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gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+39) "San Diego" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[tantek] gregorlove++ woot!
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Loqi gregorlove has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (57 in all channels)
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Loqi :D
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gregorlove.com created /events/2019-12-11-homebrew-website-club (+10780) "HWC" (view diff)
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gRegorLove \o/
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gRegorLove [tantek], I can't attend SF IWC unfortunately, but can volunteer with wiki stuff
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gregorlove.com uploaded /File:hwc-retro-card.jpg "Cropped version that works well for Twitter Cards as of 2019-11-08 https://indieweb.org/File:hwc-retro-card.jpg"
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gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+104) "/* Logos and Graphics */ Twitter Card version" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[tantek] gRegorLove we can use all the help we can get!
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[tantek] right now it's only me organizing, and GWG offering to help out with remote participation
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GWG [tantek]: I am attending, what other on site arrangements do you need?
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GWG I can put on my organizer badge
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[tantek] that would be helpful!
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[tantek] gRegorLove can you add yourself to https://indieweb.org/2019/SF#Volunteers
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GWG [tantek]: I just can't do much pre planning on site
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tantek.com edited /2019/SF (+58) "/* Organizers */ +GWG" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2019/SF (+80) "/* Volunteers */ +me" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG that's ok, you do well with asking the right questions ahead of time
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GWG goes to order organizer badge
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html
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[tantek] and when you get there we can see if you're able to use Mozilla's built-in zoom support in the rooms to connect to the IndieWeb zoom "rooms" so that we get archival recordings we can actually re-use
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aaronpk You have real zoom in SF right? Not the SIP bridged one like PDX?
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GWG Great
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[tantek] aaronpk, by the time you visit a Mozilla office again I believe they should all (or already do all) be "real zoom"
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GWG [tantek]: Is there someone in your office we can ask?
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GWG For the details on that.
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[tantek] me 🙂
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aaronpk Yay
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Loqi giggles
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GWG So, I don't need to bring any remote Zoom equipment?
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GWG That frees up suitcase space
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[tantek] that's a good question
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GWG Yes, I ask those
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[tantek] I feel like this might be a good first trial run of "real zoom"
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[tantek] which since we haven't successfully done so yet, behooves us to bring backup remote Zoom equipment
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aaronpk You can test before hand of course
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[tantek] maybe for 11/13 HWC?
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[tantek] oops I need to post that
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aaronpk you probably can't log in as the IndieWeb user from the moz office, but you should be able to dial the IndieWeb zoom number from the room
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[tantek] what is San Diego
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "San Diego" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "San Diego is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG [tantek]: How much? I have three rigs
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aaronpk that does mean you'll need an IndieWeb host account in the meeting to enable it
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aaronpk that's the thing to test
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[tantek] interesting
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[tantek] what is Zoom
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Loqi Zoom is a video conferencing service used during some IndieWebCamp and Homebrew Website Club events https://indieweb.org/Zoom
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aaronpk eg may require a device in each room to host the meeting but it wouldn't need a mic or camera
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[tantek] I'm going to check the "How to" section on that page 🙂
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aaronpk I'm not even in our office any time soon to test it either
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GWG I have Fire tablets
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+469) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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[tantek] Do they run Firefox?
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[tantek] alright, time to see what's missing from the newsletter with one chance to test
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] any indieweb related photos from WordCamp Riverside?
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[chrisaldrich] tantek, I won't be there until tomorrow, so no photos of it until next week.
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: [tantek] left you a message on 2019-08-10 at 12:38am UTC: what are the chances of organizing an IWC LA this December?
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: [jgmac1106] left you a message on 2019-08-27 at 9:09pm UTC: I added jon Udell to the #QuestionTheweb grant: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OrwDAzNPIn1DbJyUxbvyqVciYZUAgjO7dstQ7FmiGQQ/edit?usp=sharing if funded best way to get features you want is pay for them
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-11-08.html https://t.co/ILaZZGo1OF (twitter.com/_/status/1192928543442792448)
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[tantek] uh oh I missed it
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[tantek] oh no this is the DST problem isn't it
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[tantek] sigh, Loqi you said "This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time" and that's not what you did 😠
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[tantek] gives Loqi a disappointed look
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Loqi grabs the disappointed look
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aaronpk Oh crap yeah forgot to switch the cron jobs back
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aaronpk I didn't have daylight savings time this year so I forgot
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[tantek] !time
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[tantek] what time is it for Loqi
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Loqi In Loqi's timezone, America/Los_Angeles, it is currently 2:23pm on November 8
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:typepad-signin-2019-11-08.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:typepad-signin-2019-11-08.png"
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gregorlove.com edited /login (+283) "Silo Examples: Typepad" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Redecentralize (+46) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-10-25-redecentralize (+488) "/* Posts About */ add two more posts, post dates and names" (view diff)