#meta 2020-01-10

2020-01-10 UTC
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[dmitshur] [tantek] Nice. I don't think I saw how much content there is on https://indieweb.org/issue. I had found https://indieweb.org/issue_tracker and may have stopped there. I'll have to think more about it, but at first glance I have concerns about the approach described because it leads to an issue existing in two places and it's not very clear which one is the canonical one.
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[dmitshur] I can read/write GitHub issues on my site, but I make it very clear it's just a view of the GH issue, not its own canonical thing.
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aaronpk i don't think there's a clear answer to which one is "canonical"
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aaronpk if you look at the discussion happening around this with forgefed they are trying to decide this exact thing right now
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed aaronpk/indielogin.com to https://indielogin.com
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Ruxton does it matter which one is canonical? :/ it's an issue for almost every post kind that's being POSSE'd
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aaronpk Both are canonical depending on which side you look at it from
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aaronpk as the repo owner is like to "own" the issues filed on the repo. As the issue opener, I'd like to own the issue since i wrote it.
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[dmitshur] @Ruxton it matters if it’s possible for them to get out of sync. Imagine an issue on a personal site is closed, but the same issue on GitHub is open.
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@photuris5 ↩️ I would like to learn how to set this up... but I'll be out of town next week. Perhaps I can make the 2nd Homebrew Website Club. :) (twitter.com/_/status/1215505768243290112)
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@dajbelshaw Thanks John! I think the IndieWeb idea is an interesting one but, ultimately, just like with federation (which it's an example of) it depends on the permanence of *everyone's* infrastructure. I'd argue that's less likely in a world where everyone has to be their own sysadmin... (twitter.com/_/status/1215541261018505217)
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Ruxton ahh people missng he point
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@ruxton ↩️ I think the point is being missed here, Federation is one part of indieweb, but the biggest part is being in control. When external places decide to close shop, you lose everything, you have zero control. But if you post somewhere you control, you make the decisions. (twitter.com/_/status/1215543085410611200)
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@AchimWallmeier @wencesg says: "we're facing the unethical evolution of many social platforms, but there is a movement called the #IndieWeb that understands you're done with others owning your content and your identity!" https://buff.ly/2pTyo6E #startup (twitter.com/_/status/1215548084832350208)
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[Rose] Ooh, IWC Nürnberg in July!
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[Rose] (https://indieweb.org/Planning#Nuremberg)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+0) "/* Nuremberg */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+54) "/* Berlin */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+2) "/* Online */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+12) "/* Seattle */" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+54) "/* Dusseldorf */ Add self, fix second weekend dates to match day names" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+84) "/* Munich */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+11) "/* Toronto */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+70) "/* Summit 2021 */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+11) "/* Brighton */ Add self" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+73) "/* San Francisco */ Update my dates" (view diff)
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rosemaryorchard.com edited /Planning (+59) "/* Utrecht */ Add participants list" (view diff)
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@BekoPharm ↩️ @SquarespaceHelp @acegiak Wonder what happened meanwhile. (Found via https://indieweb.org/Squarespace) (twitter.com/_/status/1215568805809795077)
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@vincentlistens ↩️ I have built an #indieweb server. (https://indieweb.org/) This is a diagram of my architecture https://vincentp.me/images/blog/2019-08-27/architecture.jpg Basically it’s a way of using open source services to send content directly to websites or to “backfeed” it from social networks (twitter.com/_/status/1215578123829272576)
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@kernlbob ↩️ @nazgul https://indieweb.org/Universal_Greeting_Time (twitter.com/_/status/1215603723164102656)
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@scott_gruber My kind of fun. IndieWebCamp Online 2020 a two day event Feb 8-9 for independent web creators of all kinds, from graphic artists, to designers, UX engineers, coders, hackers, to share ideas and work on your own personal websites. #iwconline #indiewebcamp https://events.indieweb.org/2020/02/indiewebcamp-online-gUpSVUxbUKhv (twitter.com/_/status/1215605659586052096)
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@scott_gruber I just registered for IndieWebCamp Online 2020 https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/indiewebcamp-online-2020 (twitter.com/_/status/1215610963468013570)
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@tomcritchlow ↩️ The indieweb stuff is actually conceptually very interesting but faces some thorny tech challenges before it can get real adoption.. e.g. this guy's site syncs tweets as comments on the page https://boffosocko.com/2019/12/31/a-brief-year-in-review-of-my-website-domain-online-identity-commonplace-book-journal-diary-etc/ (twitter.com/_/status/1215616434904207362)
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@heinz Eine sehr brauchbare Einführung in das Indieweb ist der Vortrag Rage against the Content Machine https://noti.st/mxb/lhMFMv/rage-against-the-content-machine von @mxbck von der #Webclerks Community Conference 2019 im November. Video hier: https://youtu.be/ucLEMETfrTA?t=7203 (twitter.com/_/status/1215625213188001798)
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@The_Ideas_Girl @wencesg says: "we're facing the unethical evolution of many social platforms, but there is a movement called the #IndieWeb that understands you're done with others owning your content and your identity!" https://buff.ly/2pTyo6E #startup (twitter.com/_/status/1215628617411125248)
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@jeffpaul ↩️ @jeremyfelt You had me at homebrew... until I realized it wasn’t about beer... then you had me at indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1215632468763725825)
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@reaverart ↩️ @yourbestpine Он подзамочный, но ведет сюда https://marinintim.com/2019/indieweb/1/ (twitter.com/_/status/1215636017316843520)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Thx all who donate to @goifoundation #OER and #IndieWeb project. Hit 15% of goal, have just over $2,500 left to raise. Team training a cohort of educational leaders and providing free websites to participants https://twitter.com/GOIFoundation/status/1213912862604890112 (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/17yEBk) (twitter.com/_/status/1215638927526244353)
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@xtof_party Tous mes voeux et merci @t @aaronpk @chrisaldrich et toute la communauté #indieweb. Travaux en cours : #selfdogfood #visitcard #indiewebcamp #indiewebcampFrance #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/1215644908310224897)
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@jgmac1106 This weekends #IndieWeb goal: add subgrid to all my article cards.@mJordan taught me at summit, but I never moved the style over from my sandox. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/Xzyws) (twitter.com/_/status/1215645652761432066)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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@brob Section 3 of my "Movements to Watch in the #JAMstack in 2020" article: A DIY Movement Reinvigorated. I love the concept of the DIY Web, and I think the JAMstack really makes it much easier for new or seasoned devs to get into the #indieweb movement https://bryanlrobinson.com/blog/three-jamstack-concepts-to-watch-in-2020/ (twitter.com/_/status/1215653342048931841)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[tantek] Ruxton++ for polite and clear replies to Doug's tweet. Also thanks for the same to aaronpk++
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Loqi Ruxton has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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Loqi aaronpk has 57 karma in this channel over the last year (207 in all channels)
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[tantek] the only thing that has me concerned with that thread at all is the reference to "fits with your politics" and framing of left- vs right- libertarianism, because that's missing the whole community point completely.
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[jgmac1106] which I have pointed out in multiple channels
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[jgmac1106] and find another movement with a club infrastructure of on the ground f2f events with no organization or budget that has lasted as long, I think it aligns to Doug's values more than he thinks,
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[jgmac1106] especially when he started getting into different theories of anarchy...but to say the IndieWeb model is a path to neoliberalism and the fediverse offers a more egalitarian path is just wrong IMO
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[schmarty] (laughably wrong IMO)
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[schmarty] but this sounds like -chat, i think?
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[jgmac1106] yeah
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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www.jvt.me edited /Micropub/Clients (+309) "/* Clients */" (view diff)
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[tantek] @schamrty it's borderline. I think it's reasonable to discuss political implications of IndieWeb technologies and community here in meta
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[tantek] [schmarty] apparently fingers too cold to type.
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[schmarty] tantek: agreed! in this case i wanted to rant out my potentially half-finished thoughts.
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[tantek] Rabble had a good post about it from the HWC SF he attended
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[schmarty] haha, I have twitter blocked on my laptop so i can't easily look up his domain to find that post. 😅
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[tantek] yeah I'm looking
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[tantek] might have been on SSB
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aaronpk I'm getting tempted to add an FAQ section to the home page to rebut all the common complaints I see again and again
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[schmarty] ooh!
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[tantek] nope, overtargeting a micro-audience
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[tantek] 99.9% people seeing the home page won't even have thought about those complaints, so mentioning them defensively will have the opposite effect you intend
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[tantek] you'll promote the complaints just by trying to rebut them
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aaronpk What about like "do you mean I have to buy my own domain"?
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[jgmac1106] Yeah don't waste your effort
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[tantek] and the people that will complain don't actually read the home page
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[tantek] so it will both be 0% effective at solving the problem, and create other problems
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[jgmac1106] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 57 karma in this channel over the last year (145 in all channels)
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[tantek] if you want to add to the existing FAQ, do so, with a section permalink, and then you can reply to those complaining on Twitter with a link to the FAQ that rebuts them, somewhere deep on the wiki
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[tantek] start your rebuttals that way. the only reason to highlight them is if there's a massive pattern of misconception
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[schmarty] what are misconceptions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "misconceptions" yet. Would you like to create it?_ (Or just say "misconceptions is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[schmarty] maaaayybe?
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[tantek] still a negative / defensive framing
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[tantek] the broadest patterns of misconceptions are what I tried to reframe positively in the "Beyond Blogging and Decentralization" section — that's literally why that's there
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[tantek] "it's just blogging"
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[tantek] "what about xyz decentralization instead?"
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[schmarty] FAQ doesn't feel quite right because a lot of these are "Frequently-Made Incorrect Assertions" rather than frequently asked questions.
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aaronpk FMIA lol
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[tantek] found the Rabble quote finally
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[tantek] yes it was on SSB on 2019-10-30 but he's probably ok with me sharing it
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[tantek] being defensive on your homepage makes you look insecure about what you're working on
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aaronpk Of course by using that heading anyone you send it to is going to immediately dismiss it because it says they're wrong on the box
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[schmarty] agree w/ tantek about the positive framing. i also feel like maybe these don't need to be collected in one place.
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[tantek] Rabble, on SSB, 2019-10-30: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.”
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[tantek] aaronpk that heading is not meant for sending to someone
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[schmarty] Rabble++ that is a great phrasing!
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Loqi Rabble has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] it's meant for folks that come to the home page, and are looking to learn
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[tantek] that's the point, the home page is where you position the explanations and narratives the way that best positively fits the community
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[tantek] not as a response
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[tantek] it prepares people *to* respond
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[schmarty] i think for many criticisms it likely makes sense to include that info on a related page
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[jgmac1106] Rabble quote should go on the /why page
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[tantek] put debunkings of misconceptions on pages about the topic, not on a general misconceptions page
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[schmarty] and if we don't have a page that relates to a given misconception, that probably indicates a hole in the wiki
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[tantek] what are testimonials
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "testimonials" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "testimonials is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] hmm, that might be worth starting with more quotes
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aaronpk I've seen a bunch of good posts lately I'd add to that page!
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[tantek] alrighty
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[tantek] testimonials are quotes from people stating how they are inspired by the IndieWeb, or otherwise find IndieWeb technologies and the community an interesting, productive, and welcoming place (per [[code-of-conduct]]).
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /testimonials (+242) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] testimonials << 2019-10-30 Rabble on SSB: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.”
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loqi.me edited /testimonials (+244) "[tantek] added "2019-10-30 Rabble on SSB: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.”" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "2019-10-30 Rabble on SSB: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.”" to a brand new "See Also" section of /testimonials https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=67832&oldid=67831
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@xgebi This is a reason why I am fan of IndieWeb approach. Platform is a platform is a platform and platforms are unstable black boxes. (twitter.com/_/status/1215682743604011008)
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[tantek] I mean, yeah
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[tantek] I thought I saw a Karlsruhe post too
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@t Repost 2019-10-30 @rabble from https://planetary.social: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.” https://tantek.com/t54X2 (twitter.com/_/status/1215694008061546501)
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[tantek] repost << Manual repost example: https://tantek.com/2020/010/t2/indieweb-community-inclusive-anarchistic-punk (and POSSE tweet: https://twitter.com/t/status/1215694008061546501)
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@t Repost 2019-10-30 @rabble from https://planetary.social: “It’s interesting to see how the #indieweb community has forged forward with an inclusive and really anarchistic punk vision of a web for all, where everyone can DIY and co-create the future.” https://tantek.com/t54X2 (twitter.com/_/status/1215694008061546501)
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Loqi ok, I added "Manual repost example: https://tantek.com/2020/010/t2/indieweb-community-inclusive-anarchistic-punk (and POSSE tweet: https://twitter.com/t/status/1215694008061546501)" to the "See Also" section of /repost https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=67834&oldid=66358
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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@t ↩️ thanks for thoughtful discussion! Clarification: "libertarian" (any kind) is a misimpression at best. #IndieWeb succeeds & grows because it’s a #community co-operating for individual agency. What @Rabble said: https://twitter.com/t/status/1215694008061546501 (... https://tantek.com/t54X3 (twitter.com/_/status/1215703864508178432)
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@scott_gruber Does @CraftCMS or @statamic support web mentions? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1215707333197647872)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[tantek] hey we missed Bridgy's 8th birthday! https://indieweb.org/timeline#2012 (was 2 days ago)
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[tantek] coming up 1/12 is Webmention's 3rd birthday as a W3C Rec!
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[tantek] 40 hours until W3C Webmention’s 3rd birthday! (https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/REC-webmention-20170112/ was published 2017-01-12)
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2020-01-12 3:48am PST (#6700)
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk that sounds like a blog post
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[tantek] Happy 2nd birthday to JF2 [ben_thatmustbeme] [KevinMarks] https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/NOTE-jf2-20180110/
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Loqi [Benjamin Roberts] JF2 Post Serialization Format
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[KevinMarks] Probably a good idea to review it, as it has been adjusted a bit in practice I think.
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[tantek] Good day to go through the currently open JF2 issues and see if you can resolve them!
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GWG I think jf2 also hasn't gotten much talk lately
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GWG Despite the fact it's in microsub... sort of
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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gRegorLove Do we need h-event markup on organizer meetup pages? Or should we encourage events.indieweb.org?
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aaronpk good question
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@ChrisAldrich In @jomc's @NiemanLab Predictions for Journalism 2020, she doesn’t have the technical terminology some use, but she’s aptly describing the #IndieWeb community pretty well here. https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/08/a-return-to-blogs-finally-sort-of-nieman-journalism-lab/ (twitter.com/_/status/1215726852636954624)
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gRegorLove most of the summit meetups I don't think we've added h-event.
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aaronpk my initial thought is that since we treat organizer meetups as relatively public events, it's fine to put them on events.indieweb.org
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gRegorLove I'm looking at /2020/London/Organizers btw
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[tantek] my initial thought is that they are more about the outcomes and structured discussion results than the event itself
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[tantek] so it feels more wiki page like to me rather than worth a separate event
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[tantek] they're also not strictly public events
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[tantek] as in they're not open to everyone
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[tantek] or rather, to anyone
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aaronpk there is a clear criteria for whether you're invited, but it tends to be a broader group than other organizations' "organizer" meetups
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aaronpk have we shared organizer meetup photos in the newsletter?
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gRegorLove I should probably rephrase. There should definitely be wiki pages for the organizer meetups, but most that I've been involved with didn't have h-event markup.
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[tantek] still not public
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aaronpk yes i'm not questioning the wiki page for the meeutp
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gRegorLove The London one has h-event markup and I'm wondering if we need it.
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[tantek] right, we typically don't bother with separate h-event markup for them, like we don't for any sessions pages at IndieWebCamps
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk haha thanks loqi
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[tantek] the only time I've added h-event markup is *I think* when I've added photos
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[tantek] 😄
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[tantek] anyway, h-event markup is not harmful if the page is about one particular event
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aaronpk the newsletter code won't look for events on the wiki at all anymore btw
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[tantek] so it's fine for the London one to have it
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gRegorLove :thumbsup:
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[tantek] that seems fine
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aaronpk back to my previous question, have we (or should we) post organizer meetup photos in the newsletter?
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[tantek] so if you want to publish a photo from an Organizers meetup separately from the camp itself, then it needs its own event
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gRegorLove I updated the p-summary so it will show up in the newsletter
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aaronpk ah right you could always post the photo on the main IWC page since these are always adjacent to an IWC
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[tantek] aaronpk, I don't think we have? because typically we have enough *public* event photos that we don't want to crowd them out with organizers photos
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[tantek] some of us have personally posted organizers photos
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[tantek] but that's different
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aaronpk i'm fine treating the organizer meetups as a "session" of the IWC effectively
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gRegorLove photos on https://indieweb.org/2016/Organizers
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gRegorLove pokes through https://indieweb.org/Organizers#past
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aaronpk the only concern i have is making sure organizers know about an upcoming organizer meetup somehow
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[tantek] uh, if they don't then they're not very active in the community?
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aaronpk for example i didn't know about the london one until just now!
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aaronpk :)
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[tantek] also a good reason why it's fine to have h-event markup on the page
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[tantek] with a Add To Calendar link that uses H2VX
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aaronpk how was i supposed to find out about it?
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[tantek] The wiki page for an event typically summarizes the side / before / after events
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[tantek] if you care about an event, you read the wiki page about it for details and related events
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_London_2020 (+95) "summary" (view diff)
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[tantek] we also don't have separate events for the Friday night pre-camp social etc.
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[tantek] and you find out about those just fine
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gRegorLove hehe, I found London Organizers via the newsletter
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aaronpk well it's definitely not listed on https://indieweb.org/2020/London :)
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gregorlove.com edited /2020/London (-45) "fix duplicate Schedule sections" (view diff)
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[tantek] Rabble quote tweeted my repost of his from SSB/Planetary: https://twitter.com/rabble/status/1215730657806041088
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@rabble The way we create technology shapes it's values and affordances. Those affordances then shape the people who use it. https://twitter.com/t/status/1215694008061546501 (twitter.com/_/status/1215730657806041088)
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aaronpk nice
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gregorlove.com edited /2020/London (+148) "/* Schedule */ link organizers page" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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@mattl ↩️ @davemillar "If you mean the IndieWeb activist and taco hound, David Millar...." (twitter.com/_/status/1215738529285918720)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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@davemillar ↩️ @mattl Speaking of which... you coming to IndieWebCamp Austin this year? (twitter.com/_/status/1215743457022693376)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-354-google-search-dweb.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-354-google-search-dweb.png"
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aaronpk When I search for that I see this: https://i.imgur.com/yzTr2AI.jpg
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tantek.com edited /dweb (+279) "/* Criticism */ add Firefox Google search result with onebox for dwebs io" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /dweb (+7) "TOC" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[tantek] aaronpk, what really? when you search for just "dweb" in a new private window?
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[tantek] dweb isn't even mentioned in TimBL's wikipedia article
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[tantek] that's very odd
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aaronpk It's a "people also ask" section
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aaronpk I just thought it was funny that google things timbl owns the web
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aaronpk This is what I see in an incognito window https://i.imgur.com/TPrPr1b.png
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[tantek] yes that's what I see too
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[tantek] the dwebs io result has dropped to 4th or 5th
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gRegorLove When I search "dweb" in a private window a Guardian article comes up first, then a Mozilla Hacks, then urban dictionary
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gRegorLove ah, missed the screenshot. same as above
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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aaronpk hm I'm guessing IWC LA isn't happening next month https://indieweb.org/Planning#Los_Angeles
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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[KevinMarks] Is dweb pronounced with a long e?
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html
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superkuh.com created /User:Superkuh.com (+142) "just joined." (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-01-10.html https://t.co/jL6yMbX15u (twitter.com/_/status/1215774083574448129)
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superkuh.com edited /static_site (+451) "/* Receiving Webmentions */ adding the static HTTP POST data logging method" (view diff)