#meta 2020-09-21

2020-09-21 UTC
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GWG I think I found the test data setting, [chrisaldrich]
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, thanks! It looks like it's fixed and working on the site...
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/East (+407) "uncomment tickets/RSVP section; added call for volunteers to posts section" (view diff)
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@ModernRetroMe WWDC week recap: , The Talk Show #indieweb https://dejus.com/2019/06/11/1610/ (twitter.com/_/status/1307892354397986816)
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@DailyDevTips1 ↩️ Does look like it, hope to see more of the indieweb becoming mainstream (twitter.com/_/status/1307906266417725441)
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boffosocko.com created /study (+6723) "prompted by [chrisaldrich]; stub; emojicon; definition; examples; silos; brainstorming; see also;" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] Let me know your thoughts/ideas/examples ^^ (especially things that may not fit into the well-defined boxes that already exist)
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@aslakr Who maintains the site and the protocol of the Open Graph https://ogp.me ? The Google Groups mailing list and FB group seems dead. @ptarjan @willnorris @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/1307976688421175296)
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petermolnar !tell aaronpk re sponsors: would it not make more sense to keep the sponsors only at the page of the specific event they sponsored, or is that not allowed as per sponsoring conditions?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar I mean to remove them from the footer everywhere, exept on the event they sponsored, unless they are indeed constant sponsors
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@ModernRetroMe Leaving by Khürt Williams #indieweb https://islandinthenet.com/leaving-micro-blog/ via @khurtwilliams (twitter.com/_/status/1308028350728937473)
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@willnorris ↩️ Hmm, not sure. I was never involved with the project itself. I suspect that the answer to who maintains it now is probably no one. /cc @kathykam who may know more (twitter.com/_/status/1308040083530940416)
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aaronpk petermolnar: we could revise the policy but right now the deal is they get links in the footer too
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Loqi aaronpk: petermolnar left you a message 4 hours, 8 minutes ago: re sponsors: would it not make more sense to keep the sponsors only at the page of the specific event they sponsored, or is that not allowed as per sponsoring conditions?
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petermolnar.net edited /own_your_data (+464) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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petermolnar aaronpk: (before anything: these are non-loaded question, and if it's out of my territory to question them, please tell me so) so if any company ever sponsors a single event, the get a permanent ad spot on indieweb.org?
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aaronpk Not permanent, but it's a long commitment
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aaronpk I believe we promise 1 year
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@aslakr ↩️ (I wasn't sure who to contact and I added you, @willnorris, because of https://wordpress.org/plugins/opengraph/ but I now see that @pfefferle is more active on that project) (twitter.com/_/status/1308048921797758977)
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petermolnar hm. So when and what was sponsored by google in the last 1 year?
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@willnorris ↩️ He is, but OGP has always been a Facebook project, and neither of us have ever been directly involved. We just did the WordPress plugin using the public docs. (twitter.com/_/status/1308050222522671106)
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@aslakr ↩️ Anyway, given that ogp seems to be used everywhere, by messages apps (FB, Apple, Signal etc) and even in Apple Notes, I find it strange to be seemingly abandoned. I noticed someone was using `og:type` of `event`, but could not find that on https://ogp.me (twitter.com/_/status/1308051551316041728)
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aaronpk it's a loose policy, in the notes from the last time we talked about it we agreed to leave it up anywhere up to 3 years if we continue to have community support from the company even if they haven't sponsored an event directly. we also agreed to evaluate the list of sponsors every year or so.
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petermolnar ack
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petermolnar now, on a similar note: should the sockpuppets, like the one list night, show up again in main, is there a... recommended way of dealing with them?
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@willnorris ↩️ Oh, I don't disagree! I didn't realize that the github repo was archived until this thread. My guess is that the current schema provides enough value for what FB needs, and so they consider it "done". But I don't actually know. (twitter.com/_/status/1308052681034878976)
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aaronpk probably linking to a wiki page that has all the info that was discussed in chat
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (-44) "/* Other Amount / Alternate Sponsorships */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (-170) "/* Payment / Contact Information */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (+69) "/* IndieWebSummit Portland */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (+8) "/* Topics */" (view diff)
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aaronpk found google. Düsseldorf 2019, that was pretty recent https://indieweb.org/2019/D%C3%BCsseldorf#Sponsors
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aaronpk especially in light of 2020 basically being on pause
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petermolnar cool, at least we finally know :)
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aaronpk just re-read that convo, i'm not even sure what else to add to that page
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aaronpk if you're coming in with the attitude of "the indieweb revolution! down with corporations!" then i doubt any amount of text is going to matter
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petermolnar oh, sure, hence the question: the silent treatement? asking for their website? (apparently that pissed them off) pointing them at /how-to-sponsor? pointing them at /ind.ie ?
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aaronpk yeah asking for their website is always a good idea. pointing to the /how-to-sponsor is good too because that lays out the sponsorship policies
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petermolnar cool; thank you
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aaronpk if there's anything we can add to /how-to-sponsor to clear up what it means when a company sponsors an event that'd be good to add too
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GWG Do we say that sponsorship is not an endorsement?
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GWG This is a good year to think about how we might prepare for the future where we can all be together again
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Zegnat "Do we say that sponsorship is not an endorsement?" - because they are a source of our money does not mean we agree with them ... is a slippery slope argument IMO. If you do not agree with a company's dealings, maybe do not display their logo.
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Zegnat Google is one of those that I am always on the fence about. As a company they are just so big, that I am sure there will be lots of people on say the search team or the cloud team that could perfectly align with our principles. If those teams can help us sponsor events, why not.
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GWG An endorsement of any given product they may offer specifically.
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aaronpk one of the reasons i like continuing to list google as a sponsor is that it challenges people's assumptions of how large companies work
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aaronpk i think more people need to realize that large companies do not act as a single unified entity, and in fact smaller teams or individuals at those companies may align with our principles
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sknebel I think the other direction is more important: we don't let them tell us what to do and say (and generally the sponsors people "worry" about are not the ones that would be particularly painful to loose)
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aaronpk true, that would be a good thing to clarify on /how-to-sponsor, both for sponsors as well as attendees
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sknebel (i.e. the ones that we would hate to loose are the venue sponsors - and thats often the organizer/affiliated to the organizer)
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GWG That was sort of my point. That sponsors have no influence on us
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Zegnat Our most important sponsors after venue: food. Our most diverse sponsor type: food :P We'll gladly send any company in the world our lunch bill, should be the sponsor motto :D
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petermolnar most of the times sponsors equal to lobby
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petermolnar which is the source of confusion here
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petermolnar and Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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petermolnar "Feed me and I'll display your logo. This and nothing more"
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[tantek] Popping in briefly for a couple of things.
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GWG Maybe we should change it from sponsor to supporter?
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[tantek] 1 agree with aaronpk re: Google sponsorship and challenging people's preconceptions about how large companies work. Also, we have PLENTY of criticism on Google pages, I mean seriously have you seen them? And even other pages like /site-deaths features the XKCD making fun of Google. So I don't think anyone could reasonably say their sponsorship is affecting our voice or values.
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[tantek] 2 any other HWC besides West this week? London & Nottingham & East, y'all taking breaks this week? [Ana_Rodrigues] [calumryan] jamietanna GWG [jgmac1106] [schmarty] ?
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GWG [tantek]: East is monthly.
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[Ana_Rodrigues] London is now on a “every two week” schedule [tantek]
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GWG Next is the 14th of October
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[tantek] Thank you!
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[tantek] what is DOOO
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Loqi A Domain of One's Own (or DoOO) started as a project at University of Mary Washington that allows students, faculty, and staff to register their own domain name and associate it with a hosted web space, free of charge https://indieweb.org/DoOO
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] ^^^ could you update that dfn to start with a summary of what DoOO iacutally is right now in the present, and perhaps move the history/background to a separate sentence / section?
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[tantek] Sorry, I should have asked [chrisaldrich] since he made the event for tomorrow!
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[manton] I wonder if it makes sense to have a wiki page that is just for tracking where sponsor logos appear? Which sponsors qualify, dates, when they should be removed, etc. I never really paid much attention to the home page footer, but I don’t think any of the IWC Austin sponsors appeared there. (Probably my fault because I was focused on the event itself and not other perks.)
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[tantek] what is sponsors
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Sponsors
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[tantek] great idea manton, a timeline or history would be great too to provide context for support over time
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[tantek] what is sponsors history?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sponsors history" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sponsors history is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] sponsors history is a timeline of IndieWebCamp sponsoring organizations and individuals past & present.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /sponsors_history (+130) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] sponsors << sponsors history
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loqi.me edited /how-to-sponsor (+40) "[tantek] added "[[sponsors history]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[sponsors history]]" to a new "See Also" section of /how-to-sponsor https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72717&oldid=72715
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[tantek] sponsors history << sponsors
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loqi.me edited /sponsors_history (+38) "[tantek] added "[[how-to-sponsor]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[how-to-sponsor]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /sponsors_history https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72718&oldid=72716
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[tantek] [manton] feel free to add sections by year, like === 2020 == and list events and sponsors for each. partial info is totally fine, we'll fill it out as we have time to document.
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[tantek] All: I've added this week's IWC related events to https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2020-09-21#Upcoming_Events with summarized descriptions. Please double-check and feel fre to edit directly also. Thanks!
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[tantek] I'll be on for a few more minutes, but then back to time away from laptop.
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jamietanna[m] Tantek Nottingham is every two weeks ☺
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[jgmac1106] My events start tomorrow, technically they are open to anyone but adults need a background check and minor protection training to attend so I didn't publish them
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[jgmac1106] We are going to do some unaffiliated events but been to swamped at work, got grants to do digital field placements...but that meant finding classrooms for 150 people....
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[chrisaldrich] bookmark << [https://larder.io/ Larder], a bookmark silo marketed toward developers
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://larder.io/ Larder], a bookmark silo marketed toward developers" to the "See Also" section of /bookmark https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72723&oldid=72421
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[chrisaldrich] commonplace book << Example: https://digitalgarden.tech/ is [https://apiratelifefor.me/ Michael Beckwith]'s digital garden built on WordPress
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Loqi ok, I added "Example: https://digitalgarden.tech/ is [https://apiratelifefor.me/ Michael Beckwith]'s digital garden built on WordPress" to the "See Also" section of /commonplace_book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72724&oldid=72515
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[chrisaldrich] book << 2020-09-12 [https://www.fastcompany.com/90549199/why-this-author-is-taking-a-stand-against-amazons-audiobook-dominance Why this author is taking a stand against Amazon’s audiobook dominance] Description of how Cory Doctorow is promoting distribution of DRM free versions of his books on platforms (though not his own) so as not to support the ideals and rules imposed by the Amazon Audible silo.
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Loqi ok, I added "2020-09-12 [https://www.fastcompany.com/90549199/why-this-author-is-taking-a-stand-against-amazons-audiobook-dominance Why this author is taking a stand against Amazon’s audiobook dominance] Description of how Cory Doctorow is promoting distribution of DRM free versions of his books on platforms (though not his own) so as not to support the ideals and rules imposed by the Amazon Audible silo." to the "See Also" section of /book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72725&oldid=72009
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[James_Gallaghe] [chrisaldrich] Larder is built by the same people who make Exist.io.
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[chrisaldrich] Indeed. I came across it on Belle's personal website while reminiscing her leaving micro.blog 2 years ago this week.
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[chrisaldrich] I remember having hoped that she would modify Pico to be a micropub client...
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boffosocko.com edited /A_Domain_of_One's_Own (+255) "updated definition; moved historical information down page; link to additional information about conferences; see also link" (view diff)
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Zegnat Oh no, via waxy, https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/longcat-dead-at-18/
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[manton] [chrisaldrich] Probably wouldn’t be a big stretch for an Android developer to update Pico since it’s already using Micropub, just currently hardcoded to Micro.blog’s endpoint.
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GWG [manton]: I saw that micro.blog criticism. Made me think about improving clarity in our principles
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[manton] Yeah, I’ve found that criticism is often about a misunderstanding. Probably the same for the IndieWeb.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm all-in on Indigenous, but having some other options would be nice. I remember some of Belle's complaints so I suspected that she may not have been aware of micropub in general.
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[chrisaldrich] What is Pico
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Loqi pico is the PIne COmposer, a text editor that ships with many Unix systems https://indieweb.org/pico
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[chrisaldrich] ha!
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aaronpk heh. unless someone is using it on their personal website, i'd say feel free to redefine that page
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aaronpk especially since the definition doesn't mention any indieweb relevance
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@HongPong ↩️ re http://indieweb.org the general idea is to have that personal website and the social stuff is spokes on that hub. plus RSS etc. i will try to get an RSS info page out on UR as well i think (twitter.com/_/status/1308150758962016256)
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boffosocko.com edited /pico (+936) "modified prior definition without IndieWeb relevance to define Android project for micropub" (view diff)
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