#meta 2020-11-16

2020-11-16 UTC
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tantek.com edited /tweetstorm (+6) "/* Service Examples */ expand on what kinds of services which are pretty much all unrollers so far, move Stormcrow to a separate apps section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /tweetstorm (+297) "/* Service Examples */ add Application Examples, fix link to blog post of Stormcrow" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /unroll (+41) "r" (view diff)
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@jeremyfelt Hacking on microformats and Gutenberg at IndieWebCamp East Online 2020, day 2 https://jeremyfelt.com/2020/11/15/hacking-on-microformats-and-gutenberg-at-indiewebcamp-east-online-2020-day-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1328145386372927488)
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aaronpk what we actually should do is document the limitations we've run in to with Jitsi which are the reasons we use zoom, just so we can keep track of whether jitsi ends up solving those
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[tantek] alex11, we can try jitsi, our experience is that jitsi doesn't scale (video sucks after a few people), and they fail to have a decent gallery view like Zoom has
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aaronpk but in any case broad generalizations like "nobody trusts zoom" aren't helpful, and are also obviously false
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@tw2113 @jeremyfelt not sure if you'd find use out of these, but I have a few WP Editor blocks ready to be compiled/used over at https://github.com/tw2113/indieweb-blocks/ for general webmentions, IndieWeb News cross posting, and http://IndieWeb.xyz cross posting. Needs testing/confirmation too. (twitter.com/_/status/1328154030904922118)
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[tw2113_Slack_] and just like that i trigger 2 rooms
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@miklb Didn’t wind up touching any code this weekend during #indiewebcamp. I did do a lot of writing that I hope to publish at some point. Which is kinda the point in having a blog. And as it often works out, the code issue I wasn’t seeing jumped right out tonight. (twitter.com/_/status/1328162057213136896)
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@ultrazool "My goal with monetization is to cover domain name registrations for this site and to keep a finger on the pulse of this “indieweb monetization” idea" (twitter.com/_/status/1328170315663413251)
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[chrisaldrich] What is monetization?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "monetization" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "monetization is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "https://jeremyfelt.com/2020/11/15/hacking-on-microformats-and-gutenberg-at-indiewebcamp-east-online-20…" http://ing.am/p/5kKk (twitter.com/_/status/1328177228711071744)
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[tantek] what is business model
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Loqi business models are ways to offer indieweb products and or services that users pay for both for their own benefit, and in support an open indie web https://indieweb.org/business-model
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tantek.com created /monetization (+28) "prompted by [chrisaldrich]" (view diff)
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[tantek] is the Zoom IWC East afterparty still going?
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[chrisaldrich] tanks tantek, I asked that question to do a redirect, but got sidetracked...
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[chrisaldrich] business-models << https://macwright.com/2020/11/15/mini-monetization-experiments.html
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Loqi ok, I added "https://macwright.com/2020/11/15/mini-monetization-experiments.html" to the "See Also" section of /business-models https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73395&oldid=72649
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@cubicgarden Some Indiewebcamp influence on my gratitude habit Thanks to #indiewebcampeast https://cubicgarden.com/2020/11/16/some-indiewebcamp-influence-on-my-gratitude-habit/ (twitter.com/_/status/1328269231809507329)
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gyuri.micro.blog created /User:Gyuri.micro.blog (+186) "placeholder for a personal page" (view diff)
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@TrailMarks We share in @withknown 's mission for people and organizations to own their own conversations online. Be their own(ed) hubs with @TrailHub1, go #WebNative on the @GETDWeb. #indieweb and #indiedev is the future of software co-created through conversations https://opencollective.com/known https://twitter.com/withknown/status/1148701594424229889 (twitter.com/_/status/1328297934140690432)
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loqi.me created /OAuth_2.1 (+184) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /OAuth_2.1 (+181) "Zegnat added "[[IndieAuth]] incorporated some of the recommendations from OAuth 2.1 during [https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/milestone/1 a big update push] in August 2020" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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jamietanna[m] Re use of Jitsi we used it for several months for one of the meetups run but had to fall back to Zoom as Jitsi unfortunately didn't run that well, and we had a tonne of issues running on Firefox, and had several network dropouts mid-call
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aaronpk Could you add that with a note about the rough date range to /Jitsi ?
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tantek.com edited /2020/East (+220) "/* Posts */ add cubicgarden post" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2020/East (-289) "move tweets from see also to Tweets section, and one blog post too" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, anybody else, are there any semi-concrete plans for any more IndieWebCamps this year?
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[tantek] or should we start thinking about 2021
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (-52) "London was online this year, that's three major timezones for 2020!" (view diff)
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petermolnar summoning Zegnat and sknebel given we all crave an IWC EU
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[tantek] ooh just saw this ok will +1 that
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[tantek] jeremycherfas, kevinmarks, jamietanna[m] — any interest in picking a weekend in the remainder of 2020 for an IWC EU?
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[chrisaldrich] I have no immediate plans for organizing other camps this year. I am contemplating at least one more pop up and am very open to being Tom Sawyered into helping others/facilitating doing a pop up or two on topics of their choice.
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[tantek] I definitely miss the European IWCs this year and would be interested in helping though not sure I could facilitate from PST
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[tantek] I'll start a section on /Planning petermolnar to see if we can gauge interest / potential weekends
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[chrisaldrich] Another option would be to do a one-day camp or a mini-half day camp before year's end. This will cut down on some of the commitment and work for organizers while still being fun.
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jamietanna[m] I would be interested but I'm hoping to be moving house before the end of the year (date tbc) so probably can't commit to much
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petermolnar timeframe might be a bit thin
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petermolnar given end of december is kind of non-time
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petermolnar it's in the calendar, but it doesn't really exist
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[tantek] I like the idea of a one day camp, even virtual
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[chrisaldrich] He's not in chat, but Bill Bennett (https://twitter.com/billbennettnz) mentioned to me that he'd be interested in organizing something for New Zealand/Australia time zones. I wouldn't expect them to do anything before the New Year, but if others are interested in assisting him and a few others to get the infrastructure up and running....
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[tantek] would that make it easier / more interesting for you petermolnar?
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[tantek] would also make it easier on folks across timezones
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www.jvt.me edited /Jitsi_Meet (+313) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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[tantek] wow AEA is planning for an in-person Seattle conference in April! That feels optimistic https://aneventapart.com/event/seattle-2021
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[tantek] ^ lol linkpreview metacrap failure (Slack preview shows an image for Seattle May 11-13, 2020, despite the page and link being for *2021*)
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[chrisaldrich] Friday 12/27 or Saturday 12/28 might be sort of fun for a one day event... everyone's families worn out from the holidays and with folx likely having some time off between the 25th and the 1st....
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www.jvt.me edited /Jitsi_Meet (+0) (view diff)
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jamietanna I may not be around for those days as I may still be at my parents' but if I can make it I will!
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GWG Anyone interested in a Microsub popup before the end of 2020?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I have Boxing Day off
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[chrisaldrich] the "Apart" part of An Event Apart seems apropos for an in-person event during a pandemic
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, they make you work on Saturdays?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I get the nearest day
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[chrisaldrich] oops... I had the wrong calendar page... it would be Saturday 12/26 or maybe Sunday 12/27 or even monday 12/28 if people have that monday off
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[chrisaldrich] Christmas this year is Friday 12/25.
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[chrisaldrich] 2020/East << https://cubicgarden.com/2020/11/16/some-indiewebcamp-influence-on-my-gratitude-habit/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://cubicgarden.com/2020/11/16/some-indiewebcamp-influence-on-my-gratitude-habit/" to the "See Also" section of /2020/East https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73405&oldid=73401
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Indieweb Hack Day on 12/25 for non Christians?
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jeremycherfas Non-christian has nothing to do with it. Atheists will be celebrating something or other.
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GWG jeremycherfas: Good point
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GWG All non celebrating people?
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GWG Hack Day isn't a session so much as a goal.
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+163) "add IWC EU to 2020, move cities to 2021" (view diff)
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[tantek] added a section to Planning, add yourselves and your availability https://indieweb.org/Planning#Europe
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+109) "/* Europe */ stub Possible dates:" (view diff)
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Zegnat Depending on work greenlighting it, I am taking like 3-ish weeks off around the holidays and new year's and whatnot. And so far all plans we have had with the family have fallen through.
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[tantek] appreciate the date suggestions & constraints jeremycherfas, chrisaldrich, jamietanna(m) — I added a candidate dates section, could you add your suggestions / tips of things to avoid?
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Zegnat So I might just be able to do a december camp
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/Planning#Europe
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GWG Zegnat: Yay
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[tantek] Zegnat that would be great
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Zegnat If I am home, I would love to take you up on that hack day too, GWG ;) This atheist here happens to not celebrate anything during the end of december
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[tantek] I think you'd be an excellent facilitator, I've always felt your encouragements during demos etc are always very welcoming to newcomers
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[tantek] not even the end of 2020? feels like something worth celebrating
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GWG Zegnat: I am going to write copy and get some help making sure I write inclusively
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Zegnat My employer does the yearly big fireworks here in the city ... it just came out this week that they are skipping it this year. Not much celebrations.
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sknebel at least my current mood is that I'd probably be not much help for a camp during the rest of 2020. could see more relaxed one-off sessions/hackdays though
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Zegnat But yeah, all that aside. EU IWC sounds amazing. Though I know some of us were talking about different ways to also reflect the usual social aspects more. E.g. sknebel was showing me https://workadventu.re/ where you get to walk around a venue, and you can automatically connect with voice-video calls to people that stand within a circle.
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tantek.com edited /2020 (+44) "link to West in the dfn as a replacement" (view diff)
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Zegnat Seemed fascinating. I would love to try and get the Mozilla Berlin office mapped there, for nostalgia :D
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[tantek] I miss the Mozilla Berlin office
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Loqi misses the Mozilla Berlin office too
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[tantek] Zegnat, I could see participating in a 1-day Saturday IWC EU that went from say 11am-7pm which would make it reasonably attendable for East Coast folks (5am-1pm)
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[tantek] or even an hour or two later depending on what EU folks think or feel like
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[tantek] first and foremost it should obviously be of maximum convenience for folks in the UTC+1 timezone
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tantek.com edited /2020/East (-140) "already added to the Posts section. Undo revision 73405 by [[Special:Contributions/Loqi.me|Loqi.me]] ([[User talk:Loqi.me|talk]])" (view diff)
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GWG [tantek]: That's the idea of the online events having a time bias
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abisso.org edited /Main_Page-it () "(-802) Updating old events list and integration with sknebel events generator" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas Nolith++
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Loqi Nolith has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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sknebel thanks! nolith++
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Loqi nolith has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas WQhereabouts in Italy are you?
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nolith Florence
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jeremycherfas Ah. I am i Rome. I was in Florence 10 days ago, at the start of the second lockdown. Luckily we were right by the Mercato Centrale and had a small kitchen.
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nolith wow, are you traveling Italy or do you live in Rome?
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jeremycherfas I live in Rome. Expat Brit.
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petermolnar IWC EU, trialling workadventu.re, sounds like a plan?
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[chrisaldrich] commonplace book << https://colinwalker.blog/16-11-2020-1609/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://colinwalker.blog/16-11-2020-1609/" to the "See Also" section of /commonplace_book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73411&oldid=72959
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petermolnar Zegnat: AH! The one I posted was https://gather.town/
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petermolnar but I may not have added it into any of the indieweb channels, to what I'm rather surprised
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petermolnar gotcha, it wasn't me, I actually picked it up from indieweb-chat myself: (2020-09-22 17:46:56) lahacker: is anyone else at gather.town right now for dweb-berlin?
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[chrisaldrich] I was in a session a few weeks ago using https://www.rally.video/ which seemed like an interesting, more relaxing, and more flexible version of zoom that could be an interesting choice for a more social camp.
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Zegnat Seems to be doing much the same thing, yeah, but not open-source? I am interested in trialling a couple things. Still sorting out my thoughts from the IWC East weekend.
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Zegnat Not had much time for sorting thoughts during work today
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petermolnar neither is zoom, so that shouldn't stop us :P
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petermolnar workadventu.re seems to be a bit more focuses on chat-only; gather.town basically has a virtual gallery feature, but that is unneeded for us
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sknebel workadventure by default is limited to small groups talking at once (6 I think), but you map areas of the map to jitsi rooms
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sknebel (for an open just conference thing, BigBlueButton seems to be the general recommendation by now)
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sknebel although that skews a bit towards having a presenter afaik
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sknebel (but not exclusively)
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sknebel workadventure can also do fun things like add websites in iframes that pop up in specific spots etc
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petermolnar I'd love to prepare an IWC conference room where everyone has a booth where their website pops up
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sknebel hm, jacks dissertation didn't show up well on indienews...
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sknebel petermolnar: oh that's an interesting idea
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tantek.com created /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+5278) "start from 2019, 4th annual" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWeb_Gift_Calendar (+0) "time for 2020!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+51) "2020 Gift Calendar!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (-46) "renaming happened last year" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Template:update (+111) "updates are greener newer things" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2018-12-indieweb-challenge () "(-3692) see current, drop past inspiration, in progress since 2018 was completed long ago!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017-12-indieweb-challenge (+88) "see current" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+143) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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petermolnar sknebel: open source or not, gather.town is a nicer experience so far; I played a bit with it's world builder and it's definately workable for a small conference
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[tantek] well I figured out a day late what my IWC East project was / should have been
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[tantek] updating / launching https://indieweb.org/2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar
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[tantek] it's there now at least
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[tantek] that would have been a good "demo" to launch at the end of the camp as well
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[tantek] so might as well, ask now, how do folks feel about launching https://indieweb.org/2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar this week? to start to get people thinking about it and excited?
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aaronpk 👍
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[tantek] !tell gRegorLove, [fluffy] I carried over your 2019 IndieWeb Gift Calendar inspirations to 2020, can you take a look and verify that they're still things you want to try to do for the calendar (or haven't otherwise already been completed)? https://indieweb.org/2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar#Inspiration
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[fluffy] [tantek] given that autoauth has been deprecated in favor of ticket auth, the goals have changed a little 🙂
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[tantek] yeah that's right! feel free to liberally edit that ^^^ including just outright dropping stuff you're not sure about. can always add more later
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[tantek] wanted to give you and gRegorLove a chance to edit before broadcasting the page
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Zegnat ticket auth? Sounds interesting
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beesbuzz.biz edited /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (-76) "/* Inspiration */" (view diff)
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sknebel still has no clue how "this approach could also be interesting, but we haven't figured out any details yet" turned into "the old idea is now *deprecated*" ...
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[fluffy] That’s fair. I felt like there was a pretty strong consensus that it was too complicated and TicketAuth was a much simpler path forward to provide the mechanisms that are necessary to support the end goal.
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[fluffy] But that’s more of a #indieweb-dev topic. and I’m spread way too thin to actually want to work on this stuff right now.
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sknebel sadly I have to concurr on the second half :D
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aaronpk i want to get out of my indieauth.com backlog before considering new indieauth protocol stuff :/
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www.jvt.me edited /2020-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+55) "/* Inspiration */" (view diff)
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Zegnat Same. Though I made some good progress on my selfauth replacement this weekend
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Zegnat Aaaand, moving myself out of meta :D
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www.jvt.me edited /www (+103) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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[tantek] right, this about updating the indieweb gift calendar page
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[tantek] deeper discussion about the specific inspirations / brainstorming would be better suited for #indieweb-dev
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boffosocko.com edited /Micro.blog (+631) "/* Features */ feed reader functionality; JSON feed for other readers" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com created /Category:IndieWeb_Gift_Calendar (+109) "see also" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] [aaronpk] have a look at what [Simon_Willison] was doing with indieauth and datasette at the weekend
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[Simon_Willison] I'm working towards a full implementation at the moment https://github.com/simonw/datasette-indieauth/issues/2#issuecomment-727656496
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[Simon_Willison] https://datasette-indieauth-demo.vercel.app/-/indieauth shows what I have so far
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Loqi [simonw] I'm going to break the spec down into sub-issues.
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GWG aaronpk: When do I have to download the IWC videos by?
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aaronpk Couple days otherwise zoom starts yelling at me
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GWG Okay
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GWG Tell me when it starts
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GWG We had 3 rooms worth
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@schnarfed ↩️ yes! many of us currently do this with these bookmarklets and the old Press This (now via plugin). a block-based way would be great! https://snarfed.org/indieweb-press-this-bookmarklets-for-wordpress (twitter.com/_/status/1328471786313248768)
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boffosocko.com edited /Mercury (+133) "see also links; link to browser extension" (view diff)
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