#meta 2020-11-27

2020-11-27 UTC
#
sknebel might have gone "oh, an unread message.... oh, right" 3x in a row now :D
#
aaronpk haha i do that all the time
#
aaronpk uhoh the library it's based on has been archived https://github.com/cinchrb/cinch
#
Loqi [cinchrb] cinch: The IRC Bot Building Framework
[Raphael_Luckom] joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks Nice #indieweb message here (twitter.com/_/status/1332115514064318467)
#
@JamieTanna Well, tonight at #HomebrewWebsiteClub Nottingham I managed to get my staging site using my new #indieauth server, a… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332087797335855104 (twitter.com/_/status/1332087797335855104)
[tw2113_Slack_] joined the channel
#
@andymci “It feels simultaneously grandiose and tedious to make this point: I believe 2021 will be a great year for the Indie web.” #indieweb https://thehistoryoftheweb.com/november-2020-weblog-weird-web-independent-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/1332140403194257410)
#
i.colbyrussell.com edited /github_sucks (+26) "Undo revision 73265 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]]) not at all the same thing; use–mention distinction failure (i.e. failure to break the fourth wall)" (view diff)
#
i.colbyrussell.com moved /GitHub_sucks to /User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub_sucks "rolling back"
#
i.colbyrussell.com edited /User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub_sucks (+361) "Undo revision 73266 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])" (view diff)
#
i.colbyrussell.com deleted /github_sucks "content was: "#REDIRECT [[User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub sucks]]" summary: "Undo revision 73265 by Tantek.com (talk) not at all the same thing; use–mention distinction failure (i.e. failure to break the fourth wall)""
#
i.colbyrussell.com deleted /GitHub_sucks "content was: "#REDIRECT [[User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub sucks]]" summary: "I.colbyrussell.com moved page GitHub sucks to User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub sucks: rolling back""
[tantek] joined the channel
#
www.ethanyoo.com edited /email (+571) "Added mailbox.org" (view diff)
#
www.ethanyoo.com edited /short-domains (+56) "/* me */" (view diff)
#
[tantek] what in the what
#
[tantek] anyone know Colby Russell?
#
[tantek] at this point I'm not sure most of these edits are actually useful / on topic enough to be worth moderating (though there are a bunch of also minor improvements to existing pages, which is why I'm hesitant to take any actions) https://indieweb.org/Special:Contributions/I.colbyrussell.com
#
[tantek] anyone else here have an opinion?
ethanyoo joined the channel
#
Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
jjuran and [tw2113_Slack_] joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /maps (+497) "/* Eight Rows */ 2020-11-24 map" (view diff)
[tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] johanbove, could you add the relevance to the IndieWeb in the dfn of /Gemini?
nickodd and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
i.colbyrussell.com edited /discuss (-13) "Undo revision 73270 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]]); WTF" (view diff)
jeremych_ joined the channel
#
kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-181) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
#
kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
[KevinMarks], [eddie], jeremycherfas, [Raphael_Luckom] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
www.ethanyoo.com edited /Gitea (-34) "Note that Gitea supports rel=me for website" (view diff)
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
[snarfed] and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] I’ll ask again, anyone know who Colby Russell is? Starting a undo/revert war without any participation in the community is pretty bad. Perhaps we should cite Wikipedia’s guidance for that?
#
aaronpk they live in austin, maybe have been to an HWC there? https://i.colbyrussell.com/
#
petermolnar I have no idea who that is
#
[tantek] Maybe? They only started editing the wiki a few weeks ago though. [manton] do you know a Colby Russell?
#
[tantek] Or [tomwiththeweat] ?
#
petermolnar I don't really see effective harm in the edits, though most of them seems refining for the sake of refining
#
[tantek] There’s that, and adding whole articles that are more Wikipedia like without any direct relevance to the IndieWeb
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
[tantek] Hence why I referenced /wikify *and* ironic that they removed a See Also link to wikify when they should have literally gone to see also wikify and read it
#
aaronpk the link to wikify is in the see also section twice
#
aaronpk they removed one of them
#
[tantek] 🤦‍♂️
#
petermolnar.net edited /site-deaths (+680) "added Vampirefreaks, given it's social network is now completely dead. Bloody 2020." (view diff)
[schmarty] and [arush] joined the channel
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
i.colbyrussell.com created /User:I.colbyrussell.com (+300) "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" (view diff)
#
petermolnar WHAT THE FUCK :D
#
petermolnar [[User:I.colbyrussell.com]] -> "This contributor has noped out. (Reason: "The community is too hostile—to point of detriment to its own wiki[1][2]—and about as cliquey as I suspected.") "
#
aaronpk we do tend to assume people stop by chat and say hi
#
petermolnar yeah...
#
petermolnar also, taking a revert as hostile community? Well, into you, too.
#
aaronpk not sure i would describe that as "cliquey" tho
#
i.colbyrussell.com deleted /User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:GitHub_sucks "Author request: time to nope out; content was: "{{stub}} '''<dfn>GitHub sucks</dfn>''' is a shorthand reference to a perspective on software development undergirded by several principles, but what they all have in common is that they all support the conclusion that ...""
#
i.colbyrussell.com deleted /User:I.colbyrussell.com/Draft:BYFOB "Author request: time to nope out; content was: "'''<dfn>BYFOB</dfn>''' (Bring Your FOB[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_operating_base][https://...""
#
petermolnar.net edited /User:I.colbyrussell.com (+231) (view diff)
#
Zegnat To be fair. If I thought a community was interesting, figured out I could log in to the wiki, and thought I would help by doing some small gardening, I too would hard quit if the small gardening was immediately reverted. Would signal to me that outside wiki editting is not being welcomed.
#
aaronpk also [tantek] did misunderstand that edit, twice apparently
#
aaronpk it was removing a duplicate link in the see also section
#
petermolnar Zegnat: no. You would have shown up in the chat and asked, hey?!
#
Zegnat Would I? I have editted gaming wikis on Wikia and other such platforms a couple of times, completely without trying to reach out to existing editors ... Not sure if I would have reached out if they had reverted my work. I would have probably just taken it as rejection and moved on with my life.
#
petermolnar Someone showing up on the _wiki_ first, starting to edit is unusual, but on it's own, why not. However, not starting a discussion over an edit dispute is just plain NOPE.
#
petermolnar they made quite a few edits; the revert was for a single one in essence
#
petermolnar I mean seriously... I drop by on a wiki that is apparently fairly active, start modifying content, and call the community hostile if one of those edits was reverted? What kind of mindset is that?
#
Zegnat I am not saying I think they handled it especially graceful. But am saying that I might have just done the same thing. At least in as much as I would have never returned to the site *shrug*
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
[tantek] petermolnar, re: what kind of mindset, to be blunt, it is an entitled mindset
#
[tantek] aaronpk, yes I misunderstood the edit, twice, though only reverted once, then came back here to chat to ask others to take a look, that’s the way to involve the community in figuring out apparent disputes
#
aaronpk also ironic is the page in question is literally full of instructions on how to join the chat
#
[tantek] petermolnar, agreed re someone showing up on the wiki first.
#
[tantek] What *is* unusual is someone showing up on the wiki only and *creating* a bunch of new wiki pages
#
[tantek] aaronpk indeed!
#
[tantek] And if they think a single revert is “cliquey” oh boy wait til they try contributing to Wikipedia
#
petermolnar > What *is* unusual is someone showing up on the wiki only and *creating* a bunch of new wiki pages - usually that's spam, so it's even more unusual that it wasn't a link farm.
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
[tantek] I’m ok with entitled attitude folks self-selecting out of the community
[Raphael_Luckom] and nickodd joined the channel
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
Loqi [Event Updated] lahacker.net updated "Dec 2, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/189/history/671/diff
nickodd left the channel
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
lahacker is it me or did my name just appear as the most recent edit for discuss?
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
lahacker https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=discuss&action=history
#
lahacker wait was i the second revert!?
#
lahacker i just edited an event
#
lahacker sorry.. i didn't realize clicking the "rollback" hyperlink actually performs an action nor did i realize i had done it otherwise
#
lahacker i've never used that feature before.. i just did it again.. ALL UNINTENTIONAL, sorry, just going to leave it..
#
[KevinMarks] If you're used to Wikipedia, you might expect the conversation about edits to be in the talk page
#
Zegnat lahacker: it is a wiki, hard to break it. But if you need some help, do ping in here :)
#
lahacker just did some investigation.. woke up, scrolled back through the logs, saw tantek asking about colby, clicked through to see what the hubbub, poked around trying to see /what/ the rollback was, clicked the blue underlined thing that said "rollback", landed on a page that didn't jive, went to get my coffee
#
lahacker so i had landed on the page after colby had returned to fix tantek's first mistake
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
lahacker and accidentally triggered the second rollback
#
lahacker i've just probably only ever rolled back something i was currently working on and thus it was in a more deliberate context
#
lahacker and probably only ever uesd the feature twice
#
aaronpk amazing what a little bit of communication could have solved, instead of colby assuming the rollbacks were "hostile"
#
lahacker Zegnat: thank you and apparently it's hard to break but easy to communicate the wrong message!
#
lahacker double wammy tho
#
lahacker i'll shoot him an e-mail
strugee joined the channel
#
petermolnar lahacker: I managed to press that rollback today as well. Then I reverted rollback. Mistakes happen.
#
petermolnar I wouldn't poke that person
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
lahacker so i'm seeing 1 single "wikifying" in the See Also so I think we're good
#
lahacker i'd hate to wait for a vengeful blog post to clarify things; already sent, didn't exactly beg him to come back
#
jacky lmfao
#
jacky tbh I'd delete their page altogether
#
jacky having a page like that that's indexable is just ammo for people
#
lahacker i was going to say give him some time to come back and fix his end but i just saw petermolnar's edits.. he ain't coming back
#
petermolnar good.
#
lahacker i think hanlon's razor cut everyone today
#
lahacker.net edited /SQLite (+91) (view diff)
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
[eddie] and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
[tantek] and [manton] joined the channel
#
[manton] [tantek] Just catching up… The name doesn’t sound familiar. (I never got everyone’s name who used to come to HWC, though, so could be I’m forgetting.)
#
[tantek] thanks [manton], appreciate you checking.
[Raphael_Luckom] joined the channel
#
Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
[tantek] anybody want to write a quick blog post about the IndieWeb Gift Calendar day 1 coming up next Tuesday for the newsletter?
#
[tantek] (and submit to IndieNews obv)
#
tantek.com edited /HTTP (+16) "simplify dfn, express relevance to IndieWeb" (view diff)
[schmarty] and [schmarty]1 joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Gemini (+6) "simplify dfn from being marketingy to having some potential relevance to IndieWeb, note lack of source of blockquotes and marketingy nature of claims" (view diff)
#
[tantek] alright so has Loqi learned how to deal with DST / non-DST yet or are we mere minutes away from the final version of the newsletter?
#
[tantek] i.e. Loqi claims "sent out at 3pm Pacific time" but is that actually true, or is Loqi still stuck in DST and thus will send it out actually at 14:00 PST
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
[tantek] well that's a good sign
#
petermolnar gives Loqi UTC time
#
petermolnar not sure if Loqi liked the UTC time or not
#
petermolnar Loqi?
#
[tantek] hmmm, have HWC Americas etherpads not been archived for a while?
#
[tantek] wondering if we have a list of those archive somewhere or not
#
[tantek] GWG, [chrisaldrich] any idea? (either question)
#
Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Nov 25, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed description "remove a bit of copy pasta from last week" https://events.indieweb.org/event/188/history/672/diff
#
ethanyoo Regarding the confusion with no one knowing who Colby Russell is, I joined the wiki this week as ethanyoo. I'm sorry if I should have introduced myself here before doing so.
#
[tantek] looks like the most recent HWC West Coast / Americas etherpad notes archive is https://indieweb.org/events/2020-09-16-hwc-west-coast
#
tantek.com created /events/2020-09-23-hwc-west-coast (+620) "archived from etherpad" (view diff)
#
Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Sep 23, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club West Coast" changed description "archived etherpad to wiki" https://events.indieweb.org/event/147/history/673/diff
#
tantek.com created /events/2020-09-30-hwc-west-coast (+982) "archived from etherpad" (view diff)
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] hi ethanyoo and welcome
#
Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Sep 30, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club West Coast" changed description "archived etherpad" https://events.indieweb.org/event/148/history/674/diff
#
[tantek] (apologies for all the edit-noise, trying to get a bunch done before the newsletter deadline)
#
tantek.com created /events/2020-09-09-hwc-west-coast (+471) "archived from etherpad, who was here?" (view diff)
#
Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Sep 9, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club West Coast" changed description "archived etherpad" https://events.indieweb.org/event/145/history/675/diff
#
Zegnat ethanyoo: no requirement at all to introduce yourself first :D Although we do enjoy getting to know more people! Welcome.
#
Zegnat It is just not often people start editting pages on the wiki without having attended an event or having interacted in chat in some way. Which caught some people by surprise.
#
tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+368) "add rest of 2020-09 HWCs and West Coast notes" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /events/2020-09-09-hwc-west-coast (-127) "add HWC footer" (view diff)
#
jacky right - it's like having a house party and someone random just came and starting moving your furniture (and your roommate's)
#
jacky like wat
#
tantek.com edited /events/2020-09-16-hwc-west-coast (+34) "add HWC footer" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /events/2020-09-23-hwc-west-coast (-125) "add HWC footer" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /events/2020-09-30-hwc-west-coast (-126) "add HWC footer" (view diff)
#
Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
tantek.com edited /mute (+341) "Brainstorming / Alternative to multiple feeds" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /mute (+253) "/* Alternative to multiple feeds */ attempt user-centric description of use-case" (view diff)
#
Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html
#
tantek.com edited /mute (+357) "/* Alternative to multiple feeds */ note multiple feed files attempt and publisher burden" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /mute (+498) "/* Alternative to multiple feeds */ connecting silo UI innovations here to possible IndieWeb approaches" (view diff)
#
Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Oct 21, 2020 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Everyone from North and South America At Once" changed cover_image "cover image should be about the event, not the photo taken at the event" https://events.indieweb.org/event/173/history/676/diff
#
ethanyoo.com created /User:Ethanyoo.com (+723) "Switch over from "Www.ethanyoo.com" to "Ethanyoo.com"" (view diff)
#
[tantek] ethanyoo++ nice work!
#
Loqi ethanyoo has 1 karma over the last year
#
@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2020-11-27.html (twitter.com/_/status/1332462971843297281)
strugee joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /using (+259) "disambig, using as app name see the giving-credit section" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /giving-credit (+445) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add "using BBEdit" example from my posts" (view diff)
#
[tantek] "Crediting Applications" may be worth its own page. WDYT aaronpk, you've thought about this a lot: https://indieweb.org/giving-credit#Crediting_Applications
#
[KevinMarks] What is colophon?
#
Loqi A colophon is a page or section, like a footer, of a site that describes how the site is made, with what tools, supporting what technologies https://indieweb.org/colophon