#meta 2021-02-24

2021-02-24 UTC
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[tantek] seemingly normal things
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@julien51 ↩️ Very cool to see you both embrace #indieweb stuff! (twitter.com/_/status/1364377212732997632)
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@scojjac IndieWeb is promising, but the implementation needs work to have broad appeal: https://scojjac.com/2021/02/indieweb-is-promising-but-the-implementation-needs-work-to-have-broad-appeal/ (twitter.com/_/status/1364443599274799108)
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GWG Saphire: No, because formatting is a matter for theming in WordPress, not plugins. It is just complicated
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GWG It would be nice if WordPress helped out more.
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GWG But being as Bridgy is looking for markup on the page, and the plugin doesn't handle markup, the theme does...there's a limit to what a plugin can do to change that
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aaronpk Any post that says "IndieWeb" and "the implementation" is missing the point and can be ignored
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[tantek] Exactly
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GWG Yes.
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[tantek] Drop the "the." Just "implementations." It's plural
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GWG The individual in question was in the WordPress room earlier.
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@brianwisti I wrote a note: yay fresh webmentions again #Indieweb #Site #IFixedIt #Blog https://randomgeekery.org/note/2021/02/yay-fresh-webmentions-again/ (twitter.com/_/status/1364452172109393920)
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@cleverdevil No, it’s not yet publicly linked from my site. Yes, the activity ring is animated on load. #IndieWeb #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/1364473458495660034)
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[tw2113_Slack_] 😮 I just realized Jonathan there is CTO of a company one of the clients at my dayjob works with
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[KevinMarks] Thoughtful post https://observablehq.com/@mbostock/10-years-of-open-source-visualization
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tantek.com edited /Blogspot (+159) "/* See Also */ fix img width and alt" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] calumryan.com created "Mar 3, 2021 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" https://events.indieweb.org/NV7GTLx3KEk1
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+170) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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GWG It's Wednesday...HWC Day.
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aaronpk I am starting to think the “build for yourself” principle is being misunderstood
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/andrewtj/status/1364501750581891072?s=21
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@andrewtj @scojjac Possibly it always will given the heavy emphasis on building things for yourself. Are you going to stick with it? (twitter.com/_/status/1364501750581891072)
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aaronpk It was in there to fight against a very specific kind of attitude in the standards world
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[tantek] and in the startup hype product pitch world
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[tantek] here's my new fancy solution for everybody (else)! hey everybody come join and use my thing that I'm not even using myself!
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GWG Maybe we need to redo the principle description
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aaronpk I think it’s being misinterpreted again and again to suggest that we think everyone wshould build their own website instead of use tools and services created by others
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aaronpk i think thie missing part of the principle is the invisible first part of that sentence
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aaronpk it’s more like, *if* you are going to build something, then make sure you are building something you will use yourself
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aaronpk and, specifically don’t build something just because you think it will be useful to other people, unless you will also use it yourself
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@jonrhythmic ↩️ Here is a good example on how it can be done: https://indieweb.org/icon (twitter.com/_/status/1364597231798652930)
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GWG aaronpk: I add little features for others, I rarely add entire projects or days long work
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GWG Either way, there's a difference between building a cabinet from scratch and building an Ikea cabinet
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GWG The Indieweb may be, in some cases, some assembly required... but that's a choice. You can hire someone like [manton] to deliver a fully assembled cabinet
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GWG aaronpk, [tantek]: What is the equivalent of Use What You Make for people using Micro.blog where they may not be building from scratch?
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GWG That may be worth saying how you can still live out that principle
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aaronpk that's my point, the principle is not targeted at users, it's targeted at people who are building things
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[tantek] no it's targeted at everyone. this is why we don't use the term builders
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[tantek] GWG, that's the right kind of question!
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[tantek] look no one is assuming or suggesting building "from scratch". that's a bit of a strawman and anyone implying as much on twitter etc. is concern trolling at best
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[tantek] like in cooking / baking. I've baked a few pies. I've never made the pie crust "from scratch".
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[tantek] part of the point here is to recognize that *everyone* whether they realize it or not is a "maker" of some kind, whether its content, writing, art, design, typography, style, layout, interaction, coding (any language)
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[tantek] everyone makes something, even if it's just composing text or taking photos and sharing with friends and/or family
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[tantek] GWG, what do you think of the current https://indieweb.org/eat_what_you_cook page?
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[tantek] what is use what you make
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "use what you make" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "use what you make is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] use what you make is /eat_what_you_cook
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /use_what_you_make (+30) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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GWG I might emphasize creating content as applicable
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[tantek] agreed. there are entire crafts to creating different kinds content, even writing is an artform that spans microcopy, tweets, poems, short posts, medium posts, long form articles, books etc.
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GWG Maybe I'll look when I take lunch at some gardening
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[tantek] GWG, happy to collaborate if you want to pair
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[tantek] this is important stuff, or even good topic for HWC
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tantek.com edited /principles (+19) "/* See Also */ life matters" (view diff)
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GWG The Indieweb means different things to different people, but people assume it is much more monolithic because other communities are
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tantek.com edited /principles (+0) "/* See Also */ actually, happens" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, people assume monolithism because they view it through their personal lens / expectations / wants & desires
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GWG "I tried out the Indieweb..it didn't work for me." Acts like it is a technology, not a philosophy
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[tantek] good for inspiration, bad for artificial perception of limited scope
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GWG The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web".
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GWG Maybe we should add the word community
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GWG The IndieWeb is a community of people who believe in a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web".
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GWG Or, Soylent Green style
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GWG The Indieweb is people
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[tantek] I think it's good to have the broadness of "people-focused alternative"
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[tantek] you can be on / part of the IndieWeb without having to be in "the community"
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[tantek] there's the IndieWeb (very broad), and there's also the IndieWeb community
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[tantek] GWG, more urgently, I'd like to update/replace "scratch your own itch" (which is the counterpart to use what you make)
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[tantek] Could you comment on https://indieweb.org/scratch_your_own_itch#Make_What_You_Need ?
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david.shanske.com edited /scratch_your_own_itch (+197) (view diff)
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GWG How's that one?
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GWG 'Create for Yourself'
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[tantek] interesting and good to capture as a proposal!
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[tantek] the yourself vs your want/needs contrast is worth exploring.
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[tantek] ooh these would be great HWC topics
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GWG [tantek]: You should propose that to the host tonihgt
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GWG tonight
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[tantek] lol
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GWG You have Use What You Make as the companion principle to the Scratch Your Own Itch principle.
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GWG So, you should create things for yourself and then use those things actively.
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[tantek] I do want to challenge folks to think about / prioritize needs/wants rather than frivolous messing around, or worse, tail wagging the dog of implementing features just because there's a protocol
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GWG [tantek]: I may be guilty of frivolity.
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[tantek] GWG, it's ok to have fun once in a while too, that's why it's an explicit principle
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GWG I do wonder if my weather tracking beyond basic conditions and temperature will have a practical use
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GWG aciccarello[m]: Yes, but you have to accommodate people who have large and small scale building ideas.
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GWG That's what we are seeking to clarify to people who misunderstand what we are advocating for
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@mmatuzo “Why The IndieWeb?” - Another fantastic art piece by @heydonworks. Heydons videos are entertaining, informative and well produced. Support him, if you can: https://opencollective.com/webbed-briefs https://briefs.video/videos/why-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1364665414794563584)
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Loqi [Event Updated] jacky.wtf updated "Feb 24, 2021 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed description "fix etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/215/history/745/diff
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jacky.wtf edited /Salmon (+85) "change language and mention that [[Bridgy Fed]] uses it" (view diff)
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[tantek] interesting, I can believe that but due to Bridgy OStatus support though right, not AP? I don't think any AP sites depend on Salmon (AP has its own protocols to do that)
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[tantek] Jacky ^
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[tantek] also maybe snarfed
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jacky ahh you're right
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jacky I only edited that because I was looking at the resolver from Bridgy and noticed that
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jacky.wtf edited /Salmon (+34) "adjust to reflect that Salmon == OStatus-centric" (view diff)
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed aaronpk/micropub.rocks to https://micropub.rocks