#meta 2021-03-17

2021-03-17 UTC
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@artlung Trump and his idiots are too fucking lazy to indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/1372041962858024960)
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@ohhelloana Today, from 7pm GMT, come chat about the web and showcase your personal website! #IndieWeb https://events.indieweb.org/2021/03/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-RPPFzlAKm73H (twitter.com/_/status/1372155041935728642)
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@w3bk3rn3l Today, from 7pm GMT, come chat about the web and showcase your personal website! #IndieWeb https://events.indieweb.org/2021/03/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-RPPFzlAKm73H (twitter.com/_/status/1372195897837228035)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ If you want to talk about implementation of it, https://chat.indieweb.org/dev is a good place to do so (twitter.com/_/status/1372204962596450311)
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Loqi [Event Updated] jacobhall.net updated "Mar 17, 2021 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed description "fixing etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/220/history/757/diff
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Loqi [New Event] www.jvt.me created "Apr 12, 2021 6:30pm Tech Nottingham April 12th - The IndieWeb Movement" https://events.indieweb.org/wAtZFGQygS9F
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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Loqi [Event Updated] calumryan.com updated "Mar 17, 2021 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/221/history/759/diff
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@reillyusa ↩️ A few years ago, there was an idea just like that. https://indieweb.org/Tent.io - it failed. It’s a long overdue concept. For now, I’ll just go and listen to Coma Cat again. (twitter.com/_/status/1372269600939868163)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] I'd forgotten about tent
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petermolnar was that the pump.io days?
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[tantek] that indieweb page for tent .io is the top Bing and Google result for tent(.)io (without parens)
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[tantek] higher than the github repo, and the Wikipedia page
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[tantek] well done folks
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petermolnar ^^^ this is true for DDG as well :D
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+581) "note subsequent project Flynn being shutdown" (view diff)
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[tantek] petermolnar no nothing to do with pump. it was yet another "decentralized" but actually monoculture attempt back in the day https://indieweb.org/Tent.io#Monoculture
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jacky wait wait
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jacky they made Flynn?
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jacky wow
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jacky this feels like a Flickr/Slack kind of situation in terms of how it came to be
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[tantek] Tent was essentially the same highlevel idea/pitch (no pun intended) as SOLID, years before SOLID was named/proposed/hyped: "The goal of Tent was to allow for the proliferation of many different "apps" that manipulated a user's data while keeping the data layer consistent. In this way, users had a single location for their data and a single authentication provider instead of having their data spread out across many apps."
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[tantek] which pretty much describes what SOLID pods are supposed to be
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[tantek] jacky, except both Flickr and Slack were huge successes, and neither Tent nor Flynn were much more than a blip
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jacky WAIT
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jacky woww they really stopped working on Flynn, lol
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jacky I almost considered using it
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petermolnar what is Flynn
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Flynn" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Flynn is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] alright I'll add a subheading
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jacky https://web.archive.org/web/20210204175720/https://flynn.io/
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+14) "Flynn subhead" (view diff)
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jacky if you need a link for the home page
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[tantek] Flynn is /Tent.io#Flynn
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Flynn (+26) "prompted by petermolnar and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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jacky Flynn looked like Dokku but mutli-machine
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[KevinMarks] Thta pitch also sounds like the opensocial one
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[tantek] yes that too sorta, except I remember those were very "widget" focused instead
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@geonz ↩️ #indieWeb is a great concept but... (twitter.com/_/status/1372302225544941569)
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[tantek] ... but that's about Moodle and what is that?
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[tantek] What is Moodle?
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Loqi Moodle is a Learning Platform or course management system (CMS) - a free Open Source software package designed to help educators create effective online course materials https://indieweb.org/Moodle
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[tantek] hmm
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tantek.com edited /Moodle (+82) "no known IndieWeb community members explicit disclaimer" (view diff)
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] ^ since you defined Moodle, do you or anyone you know actually run Moodle on your/their own personal site?
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jacky I don't think Moodle is something you run on a personal site
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jacky it's more like a forum IIRC
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jacky oh that's one of those indieweb but not IndieWeb (lol @ casing)
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@marinintim ↩️ Про индивеб: https://indieweb.org (главный ресурс) / https://marinintim.com/2019/indieweb/ (серия моих статей из 2к19) Про федивёрс: есть pleroma (https://pleroma.social) и mastodon (https://joinmastodon.org). И там, и там можно читать людей не со своего инстанс (twitter.com/_/status/1372309150789668874)
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aaronpk I mean you *could* run moodle on your own site if you were teaching classes from your site...
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mxd.codes created /cookie_banner (+799) "Created page with "A cookie banner informs users about the cookies which are used on a site. == Opt-in == With Opt-in users are usually shown are highlighted cookie banner as soon as a site is..."" (view diff)
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angelogladding.com edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (+402) (view diff)
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lahacker is this in bad taste ^
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mxd.codes edited /cookie_banner (+10) (view diff)
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jacky lahacker: I think that page looks good, imho
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lahacker jacky: the Women's Panel that i added to the bottom :)
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[schmarty] lahacker: can you say more about the goals for the "Women's Panel"?
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jacky [schmarty] took the characters out of my input buffer
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jacky (lol)
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[schmarty] 😂
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jacky.wtf edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (+159) "/* Interest */" (view diff)
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lahacker actually i'm trying to be as undefining as possible
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jacky also thanks for reminding me about this page
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jacky.wtf edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (+16) "/* Interest */" (view diff)
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jacky.wtf edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (+16) "/* Microsub */" (view diff)
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[schmarty] lahacker: in that case i have a few concerns. 😅
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lahacker i'm all ears
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[schmarty] i think decisions about whether and how an to organize an IWC Popup as a venue for issues from a minoritized group must be directed by members of that group.
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lahacker which is why i didn't put myself down as facilitator
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lahacker i'd be finding one to sort of take the reigns
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lahacker but heck even jacky forget about that little corner of our littler wiki
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jacky oooh that's an interesting reversal
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[schmarty] i'd start with finding (more than one) person interested in taking that on, and let them propose it as a pop-up session.
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[schmarty] wanting to hear from women about their thoughts/concerns/etc related to indieweb seems good!
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[schmarty] putting up a blank "women's session" and expecting women to come fill in the blanks feels like asking for free labor. and maybe a little marginalizing (as if to imply that women should have less of a voice at other sessions).
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lahacker not sure i agree with the former, can definitely understand the latter
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lahacker so the idea here is that it isn't confined to the IndieWeb
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jacky I see [schmarty]'s concern but I do wonder if this could field a situation if someone did come in - they could pick it up as a discussion point
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jacky welp actually [schmarty] debunked that lol
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jacky that's what i get for stepping away lol
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[schmarty] jacky: lol sorry
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lahacker the IndieWeb would be an empathetic host for a topic its community members would genuinely appreciate
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[schmarty] lahacker: if the goal isn't to have IndieWeb-related discussion, i'm missing why it would be an IndieWeb Popup. what is the scope? (and why are men determining the scope of this hypothetical event?)
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lahacker i'd like to mention it to a couple of women.. playing a game of chicken and egg here
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lahacker thought first i'd make a wiki change, then raise it here, then present to women, get them signed in to the wiki, at which point it's out of my hands
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lahacker i have a few in mind.. i could expand my reach if i knew this was something IW would like to be a part of
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lahacker otherwise i could.. take it elsewhere?
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lahacker but i get the pushback
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[schmarty] i am not sure i understand the vision.
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[schmarty] members of the IndieWeb community could certainly benefit from hearing experiences from more kinds of folks. but to the extent that (especially marginalized) folks are willing to talk about potentially painful things, why is an IndieWeb Popup a good venue for them to spend their time and energy?
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[schmarty] one example: maybe the IndieWeb community can lend some expertise and effort to help folks with their personal websites? that's great and worth doing if everyone is willing! but i think that's a very different effort from running a Popup.
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lahacker i have an email open to laura asking for her to expand upon her ideas in a standalone video.. that puts the burden on her to, what, get Aral and her to small-tech a video? i honestly couldn't do that to her.. seeing the way he cut her off like that.. does she.. talk all by herself? she could find her own group but that puts another burden on her.. i'd like to bring it up at HWC for a second.. i'd like
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lahacker to mention it to a couple of people in the dweb. the best way to coordinate these worlds seems to be that lonely little section of the wiki..
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lahacker true about the potentially painful things.. um.. handle it with grace?
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[schmarty] not sure what you mean by "handle"? listening and responding respectfully feels more like a code-of-conduct baseline than a measure of success. 😅
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[schmarty] for what it's worth, laura has spoken on many of the small web issues on her own, particularly around accessibility.
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lahacker like.. mention before the session that things *could* get muddy and to prepare yourself for them or prepare to consciously avoid the painful conversation entirely
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lahacker this wouldn't be about highlighting or empowering women in tech.. it'd be a safe space for ANY woman to talk about how tech exists in their lives, what they like and what they don't like..
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lahacker not that the former would be a bad thing.. just not the emphasis of the "panel"
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aaronpk yeah i agree with [schmarty], I am not clear on the scope or intended outcome of this session, nor do i think that it's a good idea for someone outside of that group to try to create that space without input from members of that group
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[tantek] catching up here. [schmarty] listed all my concerns
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[tantek] lahacker I get the good intentions behind this, however we can be better about execution here in a way that is much more empowering (and less saviorism)
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[tantek] also I'm going to express discomfort about a bunch of guys even trying to brainstorm about what "it'd be", much less attempting to define "a safe space for ANY woman" in *any* context.
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lahacker see i didn't want to have a debate about it..
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lahacker i'll just take it elsewhere!
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lahacker like a gross debate..
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[tantek] I'd suggest actually directly talking with women friends about it instead and then listen to them, and help them do what *they want* not anything to do with your ideas of what should be done
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[tantek] in this case, if you have specific women friends who are interested in IndieWeb, help them directly, and help them propose a pop-up, rather than "doing it for them"
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[tantek] it's not a gross debate, these are super important subtleties to discuss and be sensitive to
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[tantek] if you're looking for something to point to on the IndieWeb wiki, start with the /principles and /code-of-conduct which specifically mentions our community norms around inclusivity
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[tantek] also not sure "elsewhere" is a solution when the approach is the challenge, not the venue
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jacky also wait
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jacky this is something the women already _currently_ in the IndieWeb could address when/if they felt the need to
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jacky no?
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[tantek] correct!
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[tantek] also why it's kind of a bad look to be suggesting it, as a guy, for other people to do labor, especially less privileged
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[tantek] I'm going to undo that proposal from the pop-ups unless someone here speaks up soon
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lahacker welp...
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lahacker i think i stand alone.
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lahacker suffice it to say my email to laura has taken a different tone!
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lahacker no hard feelings towards anyone
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lahacker i'm just continually amazed at how sticky this all has become
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[tantek] lahacker no hard feelings either! and yes, any amount of questioning the status quo which we've all been (somewhat) saliently conditioned to is going to feel "sticky" at times. it's ok feeling to get used to, usually means something better is possible
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tantek.com edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (-402) "sessions should be proposed/brainstormed by folks actively interested in hosting (not as a request or a placeholder for them) Undo revision 74915 by [[Special:Contributions/Angelogladding.com|Angelogladding.com]] ([[User talk:Angelogladding.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2021/Pop-ups/Sessions (+246) "instructions for ideas for others to host, bring it up in chat instead" (view diff)
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[tantek] lahacker, though I noted that the top of the page specifically says for folks interesting in hosting to add session (not folks interested in having someone else host), I added a sentence to help clarify that latter implied aspect, more explicitly: https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=2021%2FPop-ups%2FSessions&type=revision&diff=74921&oldid=74920
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[tantek] does that help it make more sense in a general way, i.e. beyond the topic you brought up?
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lahacker well i just remember gwg always says "come up with a topic, even if you know nothing about it" ;)
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lahacker "get two others" to show up
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lahacker in this case i'd get three, but i see your point
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[tantek] I get GWG's informal description yet that's always been a coarse verbal summary (as verbal expressions tend to be)
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[tantek] in either case, I think GWG was implying that you *can* host about a topic you're interested in regardless of your level of expertise. however I'm pretty sure he meant that about technical topics in particular.
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www.jvt.me edited /presentations_about (+254) (view diff)
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[tantek] jamietanna++
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Loqi jamietanna has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (15 in all channels)