#meta 2021-12-25

2021-12-25 UTC
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tantek.com edited /2021-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+125) "22 +HWC" (view diff)
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GWG [tantek]: Better picture than my solo attempt, I think
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tantek.com edited /2021-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+60) "23: 2022/Pop-ups!" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, any gifts for today's Gift Calendar?
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GWG Tomorrow, a Create Day?
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[tantek] yes that's for tomorrow, anything for today?
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[tantek] any pre-releases before Create Day?
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jasonheppler.org created /Template:jasonheppler (+155) "Creation of my sparkling" (view diff)
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GWG Well, I fixed a bug. But next I'm going to do some additional fixes, so I'll have something tomorrow.
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jasonheppler.org edited /2022/Pop-ups/Sessions (+19) "/* Interest */" (view diff)
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jasonheppler.org edited /2022/Pop-ups/Sessions (+46) "/* February 2022 */" (view diff)
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jasonheppler.org edited /User:Jasonheppler.org (+5) (view diff)
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[Joe_Crawford] [KevinMarks] that's epic! I did not come across those instances in my searches. And no, my data didn't lend itself to overlap. Too flat. Next time I do it I want to weight it by word count, comments, number of outbound links, and images. I'm fine with a more subdued image, it represents my 20 years of blogging pretty well.
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loqi.me created /domain_squatting (+122) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] Have a good day at Create Day for all those attending 🙂
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loqi.me created /RSS_Atom_War (+26) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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petermolnar what is create day
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Loqi Create Day is an IndieWeb event, usually the second day of an IndieWebCamp or its own virtual event, where community members gather to share what they’re creating for their site that day, get inspired, and collaborate when their projects overlap https://indieweb.org/Create_Day
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petermolnar !tell aaronpk please add a download ics file option to pages like https://events.indieweb.org/ics/2021/12/indieweb-create-day-vfsXwP8OTgkK.ics so I don't have to save it by hand and then import it to the relevant application.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar * don't have to wget/curl it. If I save it in the browser, I get html.
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petermolnar oh.
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petermolnar even wget ended up with a html file.
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petermolnar that definitely isn't OK.
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petermolnar gnome evolution can't deal with it either.
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[KevinMarks] Conneg is actively unhelpful there
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[tantek] conneg--
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Loqi conneg has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-6 in all channels)
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petermolnar what is conneg
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Loqi conneg is short for HTTP Content Negotiation, a method by which a browser or other web client can request content of various types from a web server, and depending on what is requested, and what the server supports, it tries to provide the best it can https://indieweb.org/conneg
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[tantek] Agreed, not providing ics at a .ics URL is actively confusing & harmful
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Zegnat petermolnar, because conneg: curl --header "Accept: text/calendar" https://events.indieweb.org/ics/2021/12/indieweb-create-day-vfsXwP8OTgkK.ics
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petermolnar lol, no :D
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petermolnar that's arcane, even for me
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petermolnar if no params wget gets the wrong format, we have to rethink the approach
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petermolnar and maybe go ics by default, html is explicitly asked
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Zegnat I agree, HTML when requested is probably better. That way you have a fallback for people who open the URL in their webbrowser
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Zegnat Might be a fun patch to submit during Create Day? ;)
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[tantek] Sigh, I have to hack another hybrid don't I
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Zegnat petermolnar: interestingly, it seems like Meetable is only giving HTML when your client is explicitly asking for it? https://github.com/aaronpk/Meetable/blob/da43317da7a5dba60cf23d8e141a619b2b3709b9/app/Http/Controllers/ICSController.php#L125-L131
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[tantek] http://tantek.com/log/2002/11.html#L20021121t1730
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Zegnat Interesting one [tantek]! Actually amazing that not only your blogpost is still up, but so is hixie’s
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Zegnat So many times when I find an old blogpost and click the link they are replying to that it leads to nowhere
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[tantek] Yes we can speak to some degree on /longevity
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sknebel Zegnat: I assume that matches */* though
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Zegnat sknebel: yes, it must do, which is probably not a good idea as petermolnar says. I might just submit a patch in a bit :)
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[tantek] May start with trying:
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[tantek] BEGIN:IGNORERTHIS<!--
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[tantek] END:IGNORETHIS
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[tantek] To see if ICS parsers properly don't choke
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Zegnat I would not trust most ICS parsers with that, to be honest
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[tantek] Zegnat, as long as they silently ignore, it's fine. It's the “halt and catch fire” crowd I'm worried about.
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[tantek] I suppose it depends if your ICS parser was written by an XML developer or not
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petermolnar ICS parsers are fragile
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petermolnar well, many of them are
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petermolnar but the idea is not bad, and I'm happy to test it on some clients
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petermolnar although, given the format, it'd need to be a single line of html.
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petermolnar or each line pre-indented
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aaronpk It was supposed to be sending ics unless HTML is requested but the APIs for Accept header never do what I want
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Loqi aaronpk: petermolnar left you a message 43 minutes ago: please add a download ics file option to pages like https://events.indieweb.org/ics/2021/12/indieweb-create-day-vfsXwP8OTgkK.ics so I don't have to save it by hand and then import it to the relevant application.
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aaronpk Download link is a good idea too
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petermolnar well, the download link may not work if that responds with html
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sknebel Could have a force-ics param on that
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aaronpk Yea that'd be the idea
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Zegnat https://github.com/aaronpk/Meetable/pull/139
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Zegnat Took a while, was surprisingly tricky to get going with Meetable locally ...
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Loqi [Zegnat] #139 Return HTML only when explicitly requested
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Zegnat Download button might still be a good idea, of course. But this should hopefully address the curl/wget case. As well as the case for actual calendar applications like Gnome Evolution (as mentioned by petermolnar)
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aaronpk Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (25 in all channels)
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petermolnar Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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aaronpk Just deployed it from my phone hopefully it didn't break
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Zegnat Wow. Daring. Hahaha
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Loqi haha
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aaronpk I will add a download button later but this is a good start
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Zegnat For the first time I felt like the PHP landscape is evolving too fast. Meetable seems to be on 7.3, which is no longer officially supported and not available on core Homebrew anymore...
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Zegnat Curl working for me now. Can you test Evolution again, petermolnar?
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aaronpk Where did you find references to 7.3? I've been running it under 7.4
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aaronpk i agree though, I feel like they are being too aggressive about new versions lately, I hope things slow down a bit soon
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Zegnat Oh, I think when I did my first composer install under PHP 8.1 there was a dependency that seemed to suggest it needed 7.3. But maybe 7.4 would have worked too
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aaronpk Ugh I haven't even touched 8.1 yet
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Zegnat I would not expect them to slow down. The way they have been scheduling now is that every PHP version gets 2 years of active support from launch, and another year of security support. So feels like the expectancy is to start moving a tool to whatever the new version is after 2 years.
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aaronpk The other aspect is how many new features and how many breaking changes are part of each release, so hopefully at least that aspect slows down too
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Zegnat In general I think most code will actually still run without problems on newer versions. I feel like the real curse is how so many dependencies get pegged to specific PHP versions, and then those are not updated.
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petermolnar yep, evolution is happy now
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Zegnat Yeay!
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Zegnat I wondered if Node was any better, but even Node’s LTS releases only guarantee support for 30 months. So I guess if you want to build in something with less release breakage you need to move to Python?
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aaronpk Or use fewer dependencies :-)
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aaronpk Cause yea all the plain PHP sites I have that don't use libraries run just fine in whatever
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Zegnat And most of the time, the libraries will also run fine. It is just that their requirements are off.
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Zegnat I feel like I read a good article about this not too long ago
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aaronpk Also true
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petermolnar c, c++, FORTRAN, Ada, you have lots of options :P
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GWG In less than 10 minutes, is the opening of Create Day with intros and...for anyone on an earlier timezone, demos.
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Zegnat That will most likely conflict with dinner time for me GWG, but I will probably join back into Create Day later :)
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GWG The room will be available till people don't want it any more
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GWG Okay. I introduced myself to myself...so I'm set.
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gregorlove.com created /2020/London/Planning (+1813) "archive from /Planning" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2020/London (+21) "/* See Also */ link 2020/London/Planning" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Planning () "(-1441) /* London */ rm, archived to /2020/London/Planning. linked to /2020/London" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Edinburgh (+102) "note HWC started in 2015" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+113) "/* 2015 */ first Edinburgh HWC" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /Planning (+193) "added Cambridge" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Template:mapkyca (+180) "sparkline with img from /chat-names" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Chicago (+124) "infobox, 🍕" (view diff)
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Zegnat I never really made it back from my dinner time onto Create Day. Might have to continue tomorrow instead.
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GWG Zegnat: What do you want to accomplish?
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Zegnat Want to setup a blog that I will actually use in 2022
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GWG I'll be around tomorrow, though I think I should try to go for a walk.
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Zegnat I might actually end up installing WordPress. In which case I might hit you up for some help during the day
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GWG Zegnat: Join us...
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Zegnat I have still not really found a CMS with a post editor that is up to par with WordPress.
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GWG Zegnat: Classic or Block?
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Zegnat I will probably go block, as that is what it ships with
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GWG Good luck