#meta 2022-04-29

2022-04-29 UTC
jacky joined the channel
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@dee_bloo @deebloo@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1519837432501485568)
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aaronpk i like that
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aaronpk do we even need "tag" in the URL? can that just be implied?
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aaronpk 💥 https://events.indieweb.org/2022/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk suggestions welcome for how to generate that page title
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@trainingm0ntage I guess my Twitter account is going to be reserved for me posting stuff about #Web0 and #IndieWeb from now on. https://web0.small-web.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1519893389906489346)
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@CHBernasconiC I give @joinmastodon a try. So if you're over there, feel free to find me here: https://indieweb.social/web/@bernasconi (twitter.com/_/status/1519958896047181825)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+283) "pre-meetup" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+66) "Friday Informal Social" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk++ even better (shorter URL) 🙂
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Loqi aaronpk has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (139 in all channels)
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[tantek] Web0++ I'm 💀
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Loqi Web0 has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] aaronpk, can you split https://events.indieweb.org/2022/indiewebcamp into "Upcoming 2022 #indiewebcamp events" and "Past Events" similar to the split on https://events.indieweb.org/tag/indiewebcamp?
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[tantek] so that IWC Düsseldorf is right there at the top
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[tantek] aaronpk, also, redirect https://2022.indieweb.org/ to https://events.indieweb.org/2022/indiewebcamp please 🙂
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[tantek] and maybe redirect 2023-2030 . indieweb . org to https://events.indieweb.org/tag/indiewebcamp instead of the *rocks test suite 🙂
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> Good morning IndieWeb :)
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> I am planning to attend IWC Düsseldorf tomorrow (it feels like my home-IWC, so gotta be there) but ... it's tomorrow and there is no start time yet.
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> I assume 10am as per usual, but ... maybe add that to the wiki and/or event page?
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> The side-events page of BT has it '01:00' but that sounds like a strange time as well https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/dusseldorf-2022/side-events
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[tantek] Seb, the welcome email with details just went out
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[tantek] we are little behind on updating the wiki page
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> Oh! Nice, I was checking e-mail as wel indeed, thanks!
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[tantek] any help would be appreciated! https://indieweb.org/2022/Düsseldorf
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> I'm on it! (and I got the e-mail)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+295) "Weekend Schedule overview per email" (view diff)
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[tantek] Seb++ thank you very much! We can use help with wikifying directions and such
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Loqi Seb has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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[tantek] I just added a weekend schedule overview, same information as the email just in list form 🙂
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> Ah I was typing something under Sessions but I guess I can still save that
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seblog.nl edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+204) "add to sessions" (view diff)
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IWDiscordGateway <Seb> I added it to the Event page as well
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Loqi [Event Updated] seblog.nl updated "Apr 30 - May 1, 2022 IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/359/history/1063/diff
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[tantek] Seb, looks good. For the wiki page, we will have more space I think this time than last year and so creating a separate page for the Schedule like we usually do is likely a good idea
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calumryan.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+805) "/* Travel */ Update travel directions to CGI" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+12) "/* Organizers */ Adding Joschi because he's been drafted according to Marc's email :)" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+30) "add link to schedule page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+82) "/* Travel */ restore highly recommend, subhead bicycle so it doesn't get lost in trains" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+141) "/* Friday Informal Social */ Adding myself to dinner" (view diff)
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@whouishere Fiz uma conta no Mastodon! https://indieweb.social/@whou (twitter.com/_/status/1519968574416297986)
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seblog.nl created /2022/Düsseldorf/Schedule (+3365) "add stub based on 2019/Düsseldorf/Schedule" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+353) "Add section on accessibility" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] jamesg.blog created "May 4, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" https://events.indieweb.org/UX313bltNQOm
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> This will be my first HWC as an organizer. I am super excited!
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I hope we can all meet up one day for a live IWC too 🙌
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+173) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[calumryan] ++capjamesg for organizing HWC London
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[calumryan] capjamesg++ for organizing HWC London
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Loqi capjamesg has 13 karma in this channel over the last year (82 in all channels)
mro and [deborahbrown_m] joined the channel
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Thank you 🙂
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jkphl.is edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+42) "/* Friday Informal Social */" (view diff)
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@nice2meatu ↩️ See you there! ❤️ I'll arrive Saturday afternoon (couldn't get out earlier unfortunately). (twitter.com/_/status/1520015386686758913)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+10) "update expected arrival time/location" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+233) "/* Friday Informal Social */ add proposals section tonight's informal social" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf (+209) "Note venue recommendations for face masks and tests" (view diff)
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aaronpk well now this is getting more complicated :P
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[tantek] what, two queries instead of one? 😉
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aaronpk sure but also about 4x more edge cases
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aaronpk kind of like how going from HD to 4K only doubles the horizontal and vertical line count, but ends up with 4x the total pixel count
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[tantek] from 2 cases (there are events, there aren't) to 4 cases right? (there aren't, only upcoming, only past, upcoming & past)
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aaronpk yes, where "upcoming" and "past" each also have 3 cases
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aaronpk event with start & end time, event with only start date, event with start and end date
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[tantek] Is the code for the existing tag view re-usable here? Like that code except limit it to a specific year? (and assume no one is doing IWCs over NYE)
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aaronpk sort of, the existing tag view doesn't work quite the same way
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aaronpk also deciding what "now" is turns out to be a bit of a trick :)
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aaronpk when looking for upcoming events, you want to use the oldest possible value of "now", UTC-12
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[tantek] what is now
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Loqi A now page is a page that tells you what a person is focused on at this point in their life https://indieweb.org/Now
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aaronpk ok i think i got it. so upcoming sorts soonest first (ascending), past events sorts most recent first (descending)
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[tantek] now << Dev tip: when displaying events that are happening "now", use the oldest possible value of "now", in UTC-12. If this is only for events you personally are attending, then use your own current timezone to determine "now".
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Loqi ok, I added "Dev tip: when displaying events that are happening "now", use the oldest possible value of "now", in UTC-12. If this is only for events you personally are attending, then use your own current timezone to determine "now"." to the "See Also" section of /Now https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81073&oldid=78851
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aaronpk heh, when there are no upcoming events i actually want to sort the whole page ascending instead
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aaronpk alright this should work now! https://events.indieweb.org/2022/indiewebcamp
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tantek.com created /2022/Düsseldorf/Introduction (+5026) "draft by copy and update from [[2019/Düsseldorf/Introduction]]" (view diff)
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aaronpk thank goodness for wildcard certs
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aaronpk TIL you can use regex in the nginx server_name directive
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aaronpk alright, now any numeric subdomain redirects to the year archive for events.indieweb.org, and any other subdomain will redirect to indieweb.org
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aaronpk yes you can try numbers with more than 4 digits but then events.indieweb.org will give you a 404 error which is fine
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tantek.com edited /2022/Düsseldorf/Schedule (+164) "introduction session 09:45 starting with video, use Intros for site intros (like we did in 2019), 15:30 closing session day 1, lunch & photos both days" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk, http://02022.indieweb.org/ gave me the "Welcome to nginx!" page. (yes that's a 5 digit present year because The Long Now folks have popularized such dates, e.g. https://longnow.org/ideas/02022/04/27/how-to-imagine-climate-futures/ )
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aaronpk of course this is the one time you use a not-https URL 😂
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aaronpk ok that is fixed
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aaronpk getting meetable to recognize 5-digit years is a different story tho
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jacky lol
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[tantek] ooops
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[tantek] I might make it my "easy" hack day project (recognize 5 digit years everywhere I recognize 4)
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[tantek] what do we usually call the Create day etherpad where we keep track of project ideas?
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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[chrisaldrich] Zettelkästen << [http://ratfactor.com/ Dave Gauer] has nascent [http://ratfactor.com/cards/ digital zettelkasten] on his website though he calls them a [http://ratfactor.com/cards/cards-why virtual box of cards] "(as opposed to 'zettelkasten' or 'wiki' or 'notes')".
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Loqi ok, I added "[http://ratfactor.com/ Dave Gauer] has nascent [http://ratfactor.com/cards/ digital zettelkasten] on his website though he calls them a [http://ratfactor.com/cards/cards-why virtual box of cards] "(as opposed to 'zettelkasten' or 'wiki' or 'notes')"." to the "See Also" section of /Zettelk%C3%A4sten https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81076&oldid=79939
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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@danyork Nice to see that @web3isgreat can also be found on #Mastodon - https://indieweb.social/@web3isgreat Now following there, too! (twitter.com/_/status/1520081634430791683)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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tantek.com created /2022/Dusseldorf (+30) "r for 7bit code" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2022/DUS (+30) "r for the airport abbr fans" (view diff)
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@IndieWebCampDE Genau jetzt: Informelles Vorabend-@indiewebcamp mit @t, @calum_ryan & @jkphl. Seid am Wochenende dabei, in Düsseldorf oder im Live-Stream: https://indieweb.org/2022/D%C3%BCsseldorf Und wenn ihr schon dabei seid, nehmt die fantastische @btconf mit — es gibt noch Tickets! https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/dusseldorf-2022 (twitter.com/_/status/1520090594059640833)
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@singpolyma ↩️ I self host OStatus and IndieWeb compatible at https://singpolyma.net but have not added AP yet. (http://sngpl.ma/t5JX1) (twitter.com/_/status/1520092073327792128)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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[KevinMarks] why is fluffy's post on twitter alternatives there twice?
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[tantek] two URLs
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[tantek] and I don't think IndieNews knows how to de-dup when one URL redirects to the other
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@zachleat ↩️ Aww, miss y’all—have fun!! (twitter.com/_/status/1520094149067907073)
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[aciccarello] KevinMarks https://chat.indieweb.org/2022-04-27/1651102904195200
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Loqi [[fluffy]] the old URL redirects t othe new one and my webmention sender should have sent an update along those lines.
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[fluffy] My guess is that the IndieNews receiver is checking the URL based on how it was submitted rather than its final canonical URL
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[fluffy] it’s a tricky situation to get right
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[fluffy] also I set p-uid on everything for a reason 😛
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@btconf ↩️ And we miss YOU! (twitter.com/_/status/1520096059476873220)
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@hdv ↩️ have fun you all! (twitter.com/_/status/1520097773940801536)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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@localherodotbiz ↩️ Just another platform, tumblr is not part of the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1520102647197761537)
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walterebert.com created /User:Walterebert.com (+299) "Created page with "{{Infobox person |name = Walter Ebert |url = https://walterebert.com |photo_url = https://walterebert.com/_/img/portrait-n500.svg |pronouns = |summary = Independent UX Enginee..."" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
jacky and [Will_Monroe] joined the channel
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@kevinmarks ↩️ With indieweb we extend this further by defining a protocol to know when someone has linked to you, called webmention. Then you can look at the page that linked to you and tell if it is a like or reply or rsvp. (twitter.com/_/status/1520114984059117575)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ I want to talk about the @microformats and #indieweb standardisation model. This means using real web URLs as identifiers for people and things we talk about. Then having html markup to explain what they are, and labelled links to show relationships. (twitter.com/_/status/1520114979848048640)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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@zachleat ↩️ *FOMO INTENSIFIES* (twitter.com/_/status/1520116802814193666)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ the rel-me standard for correlating web pages https://indieweb.org/rel-me ways of marking up different post kinds https://indieweb.org/posts webmention How to tell a page when it has been linked https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ micropub: how to post https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ (twitter.com/_/status/1520116503315726336)
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@atomicpoet Based on a recommendation from @jalcine@todon.eu, I'm going to check out Posse because it could solve a real problem that I have involving syndication of content. https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1520119096569999367)
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@atomicpoet RT @jalcine@todon.eu atomicpoet Are you familiar with doctorow? He does cross-platform posting of his blog without having to reduce the content based on each platform. People have done this (it's referred to as https://indieweb.org/posse - we've collected a lot of (1/2) (twitter.com/_/status/1520119094023966722)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ tumblr can be connected to the indieweb using http://brid.gy and @photomatt could upgrade its markup to catch up with mastodon's indieweb interop. (twitter.com/_/status/1520118413846265856)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I always circle back to the Lost Infrastructure chart https://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure & wonder: * in which boxes can tech req's be simplified for publishers & maintainers of websites but still allow for broadest inter-operation? * which axes are missing? [more] https://boffosocko.com/2022/04/29/55804364/ (twitter.com/_/status/1520123862008049664)
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@m_ott ↩️ @t @indiewebcamp @marcthiele @calum_ryan @jkphl @CGI_Global @btconf Won’t be able to make it to the IndieWebCamp th… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520118248095821830 (twitter.com/_/status/1520118248095821830)
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[chrisaldrich] What is a personal library?
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Loqi A personal library is an online collection of books and other media that reflects either physical or digital items one owns, wants to acquire, has bookmarked to read/watch/listen to, is currently doing so, or has in the past https://indieweb.org/personal_library
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[chrisaldrich] personal library << example: Chuck Grimmett (using WordPress) at https://cagrimmett.com/reading/
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Loqi ok, I added "example: Chuck Grimmett (using WordPress) at https://cagrimmett.com/reading/" to the "See Also" section of /personal_library https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81080&oldid=80307
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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[chrisaldrich] digital garden << Example: [https://cagrimmett.com/ Chuck Grimmett] (using WordPress on a subdomain): https://notes.cagrimmett.com/
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Loqi ok, I added "Example: [https://cagrimmett.com/ Chuck Grimmett] (using WordPress on a subdomain): https://notes.cagrimmett.com/" to the "See Also" section of /commonplace_book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81081&oldid=80396
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[tantek] what is IndyWeb
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Loqi Indy web is a spider web encountered by the character Indiana Jones (AKA Indy), the web of Indiana Jones fan sites which link to each other, personal site features that make use of aesthetics from the Indiana Jones movies, or a misspelling of IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/IndyWeb
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] you need to reply to the guy tweeting about "IndyWeb" with that link to clarify that you said IndieWeb
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[KevinMarks] now wondering if IndyWeb is a rival to Nascar UI
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@kevinmarks ↩️ we've had this problem before https://indieweb.org/Indy_web (twitter.com/_/status/1520136512469409792)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ That's http://indieweb.org - independent web rather than car racing or fictional archeologists (twitter.com/_/status/1520136024327864321)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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[tantek] aaronpk, another thing for the Meetable Event page UI, it says "Comments" but then shows RSVPs which is a bit confusing
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[tantek] If you only have one choice of heading for that section, "Responses" may be more accurate
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[tantek] otherwise the RSVPs should be grouped into an "RSVPs" section above any "plain" comments
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] Joe Andrieu sounds familiar
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[KevinMarks] Joe's been in ID for years, you'll know him from IIW and previous resolvers
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[tantek] "previous resolvers" 😂
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aaronpk There is a separate RSVP section if there are any plain RSVPs . But if you include text then it shows the RSVP badge on the comment
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[tantek] hmm. [calumryan]'s RSVP looks quite plain there - no comment text that I see
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[tantek] and it's listed in "Comments"
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aaronpk Hm weird
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[tantek] As a reader I would expect the "RSVPs" section to literally show me *everyone* who has RSVPd. Not "only people who have 'plain' RSVPd (whatever that means to a casual reader)"
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boffosocko.com edited /Kindle (+477) "/* Data Export */ Reading Data" (view diff)
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aaronpk now that you mention it, i don't know why the RSVPs section is missing
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aaronpk compare to https://events.indieweb.org/2021/08/indieauth-popup-session-8gwaJpICmh79
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aaronpk oh right! because there's registration URL
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aaronpk so there is no RSVP section on the page because it could be misinterpreted as the way you register
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aaronpk okay, so time to rethink this design because it's clearly confusing
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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Loqi [Event Updated] aaronparecki.com updated "Apr 30 - May 1, 2022 IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf" changed description "fix typo" https://events.indieweb.org/event/359/history/1065/diff
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
GWG joined the channel
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@bluesky_commons The hazards of live tweeting audio... Please visit http://indieweb.org to see more about #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/1520157525395447808)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2022-04-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/1520164783235813376)
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@eric_mccorkle ↩️ @emc2@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1520165538319712256)
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[tantek] aaronpk, ohhhhh ok that makes much more sense (external registration URL)
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[tantek] external *ticketing* URL should not prevent RSVPing to the Indie Event
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aaronpk we just need to make sure people don't think RSVPing is enough
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[tantek] maybe? FB events can have a "ticketing" link and still allow RSVPs to the FB event without distinguishing who has used the ticket link
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aaronpk how do they make it clear separate registration is required?
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[tantek] maybe the difference is between "RSVPd" and "Registered / Confirmed"
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aaronpk i'm not saying it's not doable, i just think we need to be very explicit about it
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aaronpk or maybe it's not a problem anymore, maybe this is an artifact of our super old process where the only registration method was adding yourself to the wiki page
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aaronpk so i could be overthinking it
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@eric_mccorkle I've had a #mastodon account for some time. Moved it from @emc2@mastodon.social to @emc2@indieweb.social. Hit me up! I'll stay on here, and will probably crosspost quite a bit. (twitter.com/_/status/1520176036901756931)
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[tantek] aaronpk, indeed if we are always going to use a ticketing system like Tito for IndieWebCamps (which I think we have for several years now, if at a minimum to be able to email attendees a heads-up, what to expect, etc.), then maybe it's not an issue any more
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[tantek] in case I forgot (too many active threads in my head today) ...
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[tantek] aaronpk++ for https://events.indieweb.org/2022/indiewebcamp which looks *great* and is a plenty fine replacement for the YYYY.indieweb home pages e.g. https://2019.indieweb.org/
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Loqi aaronpk has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (140 in all channels)
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[tantek] interestingly, https://events.indieweb.org/2019/indiewebcamp only shows two events (compared to https://2019.indieweb.org/) which makes me wonder if as of 2019 we had not yet decided to use events.indieweb for IndieWebCamps in general
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aaronpk correct, i launched it at the end of 2019
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aaronpk Dec 21 https://aaronparecki.com/2019/12/21/4/indieweb-events
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Announcing events.indieweb.org!
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@JThompsonNW ↩️ https://indieweb.social/invite/DF7PWGVw (twitter.com/_/status/1520189289853718528)