#meta 2022-08-01

2022-08-01 UTC
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-popups (-10) "update from https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup" (view diff)
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@mrsmckhaos OSB 2015 - Micropub: The Emerging API Standard for IndieWeb Apps - Aaron Parecki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM1Y85zKZbQ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1553893302696656899)
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tracydurnell.com edited /land_acknowledgment (+545) "add more links to resources" (view diff)
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Loqi [Event Updated] ragt.ag updated "Jul 31, 2022 9:00am IndieWeb Create Day" changed end_time https://events.indieweb.org/event/387/history/1128/diff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-popups (+0) "update from https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup" (view diff)
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@smaffulli I think that now the @OpenSourceOrg blog is fully capable of receiving #webmentions from Twitter thanks to #IndieWeb folks and http://brid.gy. More tests in the next few days. (twitter.com/_/status/1553917770269503489)
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tantek.com created /Super_Follow (+193) "stub with dfn" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Super_Follow (+75) "[tantek] added "https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/super-follows" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The web is decentralized and doesn't have version numbers #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1554014671438581760)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-popups (-154) "update from https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup" (view diff)
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@jamesecradockjr ↩️ John Menario was city manager who oversaw #portlandme urban renewal projects. Sure, I've got some things to point out after reading this, and I think it's valuable for what it says about thinking ＊today＊ by... city hall maybe.… https://indieweb.social/@jamesecradockjr/108747502049695194 (twitter.com/_/status/1554074966378876935)
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@mrsmckhaos Introduction to IndieWeb on WordPress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsPjdk2-m68 #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1554074524777332736)
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sknebel [tantek]: I guess handling trailing punctuation in a 404 handler makes sense, yeah. but this was a quick fix for someone explicitly reporting it for that page
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www.svenknebel.de posts edited /Planning (+105) "/* Berlin */ add $me - both dates not ideal but potentially possible" (view diff)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ yes but as per Occam's razor "simple but no simpler than that" - this is "One of the reasons", not the entire reason, if it was then yeah, why not use an RSS feed. But then: why aren't the masses already using this approach that's been available for decades? Not enough incentive. (twitter.com/_/status/1554109011016007680)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ Oh wait I think I get what you're saying. I'm saying new tech can create new incentives yes (twitter.com/_/status/1554110537528647680)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ What do you mean by "solve incentives" sorry? (twitter.com/_/status/1554110276747907072)
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@voxpelli ↩️ And to solve incentives new tech is the thing that we need? (twitter.com/_/status/1554109746902351874)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Right, my own perspective on it is that the tech is mostly fine but that we’re stuck in a https://xkcd.com/927/ and hence are gaining no momentum (twitter.com/_/status/1554111920290111488)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ A nascent field will have more competing standards/whatever & less obvious winners *because* it’s nascent. The comic is a call to pragmatism toward an industry with status seeking characteristics, some of it via unnecessary new standards or other busy work. /2 (twitter.com/_/status/1554128348456050688)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ Hahaha - this conflates multiple things and it’s about context and nuance. History is littered with competing standards. Being wrong a lot until someone gets to “good enough” is essentially how our species progresses in any area. /1 (twitter.com/_/status/1554127564817448960)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ How do you apply what you’ve said to this context without it essentially meaning “Don’t innovate because there’s already people innovating”? 4/4 (twitter.com/_/status/1554129549369155584)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ The point of the comic is “be practical” and tbh that’s exactly what we’re doing. Lots of competing standards in nascent areas makes sense and is completely normal. Consider frontend JS before React. /3 (twitter.com/_/status/1554129202269536260)
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[tantek] That last tweet makes no sense? React ushered in a whole generation of js;dr sites which are not "practical" whatsoever
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@voxpelli ↩️ Rather than throwing away existing building blocks and forcing unnecessary rewrites and possibly alienate existing communities, causing competition and rivalry: Invite and collaborate on the things you have in common and focus the innovation on the parts you don’t share. (twitter.com/_/status/1554131087093387266)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Easy: - Focus on incremental / iterative building blocks - Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and throw everything away to focus on a universal holy grail I guess this is the classic debate between rewrite vs refactor though. The evolution vs revolution debate. (twitter.com/_/status/1554130647844884481)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ 100% (maybe not specific things you have in mind, but absolutely yes) (twitter.com/_/status/1554132235267325952)
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@voxpelli ↩️ And have you analyzed that the non-p2p / http nature of eg Instagram is the main shortcoming that keeps it centralized? (twitter.com/_/status/1554132175976599553)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ you're preaching to the choir (twitter.com/_/status/1554131908128276486)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Are you building on any of the existing efforts for metadata around decentralized / federated / indie social networks? That was after all what the initial tweet in this thread was about. (twitter.com/_/status/1554131694533447684)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ I should mention the p2p primitives we're using have openly been a thing for about 10 years now, we're just building on those building blocks (twitter.com/_/status/1554131344489332738)
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@voxpelli ↩️ You can read more about the principles of the IndieWeb here: https://indieweb.org/principles (twitter.com/_/status/1554131282208210945)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ you're describing how we build stuff lol (twitter.com/_/status/1554131123671900161)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Which things? (twitter.com/_/status/1554133117677477888)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ https://hypercore-protocol.org/ https://dat-ecosystem.org/ + the primitives cater to the areas described We'll be open sourcing literally everything, then you can integrate it with whatever favourite projects you like. ✌️ (twitter.com/_/status/1554134715900350469)
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@davidmarkclem ↩️ yeah I mean, let's not go in circles I've already covered this. Nascent industry is filled with innovation, these are all great projects, all different goals. Interoperability is a good future consideration. This is a case of code wins arguments, so hopefully you'll see in time. (twitter.com/_/status/1554133821481689090)
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@voxpelli ↩️ I know these things, and I’ve been working with @mafintosh to launch a newspaper on it, which would have been a great thing. Social networks though, I can’t see it solving any of the critical things there, but if it does, then the @IndieWebCamp community would be very interested (twitter.com/_/status/1554135475790700545)
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voxpelli [tantek]: yeah, React is really not a good reference to bring up 😅
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[tantek] voxpelli, worse, I don't believe anyone claiming to have any expertise about "innovation" on the web when they can't even be bothered to have their own website (per lack thereof on his witter profile)
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voxpelli [tantek]: yeah, and when one points at HTTP being the main problem with the web rather than it eg being React.
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[tantek] indeed
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voxpelli First it was JSON, then it was RDF and now it’s crypto/p2p that is derailing decentralized social web efforts 😂
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voxpelli Good that MF2 has remained a viable alternative throughout
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@voxpelli ↩️ I guess this one can need some updating: https://indieweb.org/Dat (twitter.com/_/status/1554138573942784001)
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@voxpelli ↩️ @davidmarkclem @keet_io @indiewebcamp Well, eg. SWAT0 was defined 10 years ago as a tech independent test for decen… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554134960923189251 (twitter.com/_/status/1554134960923189251)
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voxpelli is tanteking on Twitter
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[tantek] lol "code wins arguments", more like "code that's running on your website wins arguments"
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[tantek] does he not get the irony that he's depending on Twitter (centralized) and has a centralized identity in his profile (GitHub) to make arguments about decentralization?
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[tantek] voxpelli do you know this person? curious how this debate started
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[tantek] (there are too many people with technical opinions on Twitter who lack their own websites to be bothered to argue with)
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voxpelli [tantek]: I somewhat know Mafintosh who is also in the Hypercore team but I don’t know this guy in particular, but many other Node.js people engaged with him
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voxpelli So it’s the Dat / Hypercore / Beaker crowd. (maybe scuttlebut is also same crowd, though not sure)
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voxpelli This is the thread that pulled me in: https://twitter.com/matteocollina/status/1553781247230492676?s=21&t=5Qbsod76mnoQnBk72uqffQ
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@matteocollina @davidmarkclem @keet_io Let me disagree. There is no technical limitation for the data to be private in the old client/server architecture; there is no limitation to keep the user data in a non-accessible format in p2p. Also, p2p is very often non-web. (twitter.com/_/status/1553781247230492676)
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[tantek] Matteo’s points are correct
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[tantek] I think it's the arrogance of "we’re holepunching to a future" from someone who doesn’t even stand on their own website today (which is how you gain a better understanding of the actual problems needing to be solved)
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[tantek] this is also accurate: https://twitter.com/jsumners79/status/1553785416519647232
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@jsumners79 @mafintosh @matteocollina @davidmarkclem @keet_io We already have the ability to own the hardware hosting the data. That’s not the main problem. The main problem is maintenance (twitter.com/_/status/1553785416519647232)
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voxpelli Indeed
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voxpelli Those two are maintainers of Fastify, the spiritual and improved successor to Express in Node.js
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voxpelli And what I’m moving to
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2022-07-31-twitter-profile-super-follow.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2022-07-31-twitter-profile-super-follow.png"
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tantek.com edited /Super_Follow (+252) "silo examples, Twitter, screenshot" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Super_Follow (+130) "citation for IG developing a super follow like feature" (view diff)
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[tantek] voxpelli, this tweet in particular I can strongly sympathize with, and do wonder if there’s more we can do about this from an IndieWeb perspective: https://twitter.com/mafintosh/status/1553786751596089348
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@mafintosh @jsumners79 @matteocollina @davidmarkclem @keet_io Most users don’t wanna buy more hardware to host data. They already own powerful computers/phones. (twitter.com/_/status/1553786751596089348)
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@mikevdev Really happy to see that webmention-handler is starting to get some usage by people other than lil 'old'me. #webmentions #indieweb #webdev #opensource https://github.com/vandie/webmention-handler (twitter.com/_/status/1554150756374151171)
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voxpelli [tantek]: absolutely, though looking at eg IoT which are also having battery powered devices, they are deferring stuff like that to outlet powered devices
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[snarfed] higher level, we consistently see people assume that indieweb means indie hosting, when it doesn't
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[snarfed] we could definitely think about how to message that better!
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voxpelli Good point
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voxpelli Long term I think something like https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_hub_2nd_gen?hl=en-US but for the IndieWeb could be good
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voxpelli An IndieWeb equivalent to the https://freedombox.org/
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[snarfed] paging [j12t] and https://ubos.net/ etc
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tantek.com edited /marchitecture (+29) "put marketecture explicitly in dfn, similar to WP" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /marchitecture (+47) "add jpg for chris_wong post" (view diff)
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[tantek] snarfed, I do wonder if Ubos could be a layer on top of Linux rather than a replacement for? e.g. could it run on/with Kali or Debian, because then you could run it on this: https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-wifi-only
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[snarfed] maybe!
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martymcgui.re edited /User:Martymcgui.re (+268) "/* Code / Services */ +Belding" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /IndieAuth (+263) "/* taproot/indieauth */ +Belding" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG++ for putting yesterday’s IndieWeb Create Day on the calendar. It was a good day
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Loqi GWG has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (73 in all channels)
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@veganstraightedge This whole thread reads like a description of #indieweb. http://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1554180456265920513)
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GWG Time for another?
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology () "(-574)" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /FreeBSD (-10) "/* IndieWeb examples */" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology deleted /File:micro-panel-screenshot.png "Outdated"
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unrelenting.technology edited /Micropub/Clients (-56) "/* Micropanel */ update url, remove outdated screenshot" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] jamesg.coffee created "Aug 10, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" https://events.indieweb.org/bEITFEhK2WZy
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Loqi [Event Updated] jamesg.coffee updated "Aug 10, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description "Remove unnecessary Etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/395/history/1130/diff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+186) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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