#meta 2023-06-29

2023-06-29 UTC
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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GWG Join us at a HWC, live now on Zoom
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Loqi [New Event] david.shanske.com created "Jul 12, 2023 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" https://events.indieweb.org/Osk2JeyQLMfJ
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+176) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+478) "/* Blogs.Harvard */ decommissioning 2023-06-30" (view diff)
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gRegor ^ Long time from the 2018-07-13 announcement, but they're finally do it :/
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jamesg.blog edited /mf2py (+301) "Update page according to new library developments" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-349) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de posts edited /radio (-27) "desnark" (view diff)
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[tantek] sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (47 in all channels)
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gregorlove.com edited /radio (+150) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ mv Bret's to past examples" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Icecast2 (+108) "link dfn, relevance and crosslink in dfn" (view diff)
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gRegor !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2023/06/homebrew-website-club-pacific-z4UUl4yEfWEP events/2023-06-28-hwc-pacific
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2023-06-28-hwc-pacific. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.jamesg.blog created /events/2023-06-28-hwc-pacific (+3285) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2023-06-28-hwc-pacific (-236) "cleanup" (view diff)
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gRegor benji, I presume you got the bluesky invite code from ^ already so I removed it. :)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+126) "+06/28 HWCs" (view diff)
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benji Yes, I got it. Thanks for checking gRegor
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tantek.com edited /.well-known (+157) "note relation to indieweb, link well-known, and prefer follow-your-nose" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /2023/Pop-ups/Sessions (+3006) "add mf2 roundtable" (view diff)
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gRegor I'm about halfway through watching that 2020 microformats session, then reviewing the pre-requisites there
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gRegor oops -> #microformats
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ragt.ag edited /2023/Pop-ups/Sessions (+13) "/* Interest */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+669) "/* 2005 */ note relevant/impactful Webzine event leading to BarCamp which itself led to IndieWebCamp" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2023/Pop-ups/Sessions (-254) "rm template copy pasta, incorporate subsections into section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2023/Pop-ups/Sessions (-225) "microformats pop-up 2023, merge interested subsections from previous attempt, +1 interested, not Saturday/Sunday, merge Details sections, merge Dates sections." (view diff)
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gRegor Wait, that was the template to copy, [tantek] (first edit)
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gRegor from https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=2023/Pop-ups/Sessions&oldid=86958
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[tantek] gRegor — it didn't work that way because capjamesg started to fill it out for the Microformats pop-up
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[tantek] I'd suggest a different way of providing a template to copy/paste, otherwise the next person to propose a pop-up will likely do the same thing and fill out the empty template (partially)
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gRegor Hm, I'm not seeing that in the edit history. He added a section https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=2023/Pop-ups/Sessions&oldid=88425
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[tantek] also the use-case of people looking for a pop-up to join is much greater (more likely to apply to many 10x) more people, than people looking to propose a new pop-up, so the top section should prioritize showing pop-ups to participate, rather than to creating a new pop-up
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gRegor Fair. A commented out option works but I feel would usually be missed
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[tantek] oh I know what happened. capjamesg linked to the top level page in #microformats as *the* page for the microformats pop-up so it looked like the template was leftover copy/pasta
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[tantek] yes, commented out would usually be missed
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[tantek] I
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[tantek] I'd suggest a template near the end
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[tantek] this page needs "How to" for at least participate & propose
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[tantek] otherwise it's really unclear how to do either
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gRegor true!
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[tantek] which is enough of a barrier to explain low interest/activity
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[tantek] people see a page, not obvious how to get/be involved, they leave
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[tantek] I mean the whole hierarchy/smattering of "Pop-ups" pages have always been confusing to me
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[tantek] what are pop-ups
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Loqi Pop-ups are one-time events, topic-specific like an IndieWebCamp session or local community oriented like a Homebrew Website Club at a new location, often to see how much interest there is before committing to a regular event https://indieweb.org/pop-ups
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gRegor Yeah, not sure the best approach. I've tried to do some redirects and links so most people would land on /2023/Pop-ups
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[tantek] here is a clear illustration of the problem
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gRegor Which works for things already scheduled, but have to click a link deeper to get to sessions, express interest, etc. before that
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[tantek] if I hear about IndieWeb Pop-ups, where do I go, what do I look for? I ask
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[tantek] what are pop-ups
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Loqi Pop-ups are one-time events, topic-specific like an IndieWebCamp session or local community oriented like a Homebrew Website Club at a new location, often to see how much interest there is before committing to a regular event https://indieweb.org/pop-ups
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[tantek] which is a useless overview page
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[tantek] if I have enough attention-span left, I see the "Upcoming" section and notice the link to 2023, which I click
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/2023/Pop-ups
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[tantek] which ... is also useless, literally nothing actionable/current/live there
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gRegor because nothing's been scheduled :)
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[tantek] once again, I have to click
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[tantek] I look at Upcoming, click the link https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup
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[tantek] and it's empty
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[tantek] so I give up, community seems dead
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[tantek] meanwhile zero visibility into *possible* pop-ups
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aaronpk seems like it would be better to use the main /pop-ups page to plan popups?
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[tantek] so yes, this kind of abstract, abstract, empty navigation experience completely sucks
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gRegor probably
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[tantek] it's very academic and exceptionally bad information architecture for usability
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[tantek] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (95 in all channels)
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[tantek] you mean kind of like the main /Planning page is used for planning IndieWebCamps? what an idea!
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aaronpk heh
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gRegor I'm picking up some sarcasm ;)
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[tantek] I'm not going to fix the Pop-ups academic abstract hierarchy mess — I will leave it to others to do so
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[tantek] hierarchies are for archives, not for anything "live" or anything to draw interest in the immediate or near-term future
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[schmarty] This reminds me of a possible wiki hole. I was trying to describe how session planning works (proposing sessions, expressing interests, making the schedule grid) and I couldn't find a template. Lots of past session grids, of course.
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[tantek] What is indiewebcamp organizing
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Organizing is a great way to bring together your local IndieWeb community, yet is also quite challenging, requires co-organizers, and key details to succeed that are documented in this page https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_Organizing
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[tantek] [schmarty] there's a bit here: https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_Organizing#During but it could use expansion (perhaps a subpage) on the session ideating/proposing/timeslot-arranging process
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capjamesg This reminds me!
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capjamesg Are there any pop up ideas that we can resurface? I'm up for hosting one ~August - September time.
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[schmarty] tantek: thanks! that was one of the first pages i found, but it only mentions sessions planning with a single bullet: "set up Session grid with links to Etherpads"
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gRegor Huh, I thought I had put that somewhere on the wiki but will have to check
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gRegor I thought it would be a page that links to https://indieweb.org/Template:iwc-session-links, but apparently not (just the schedule grid pages we've used it on)
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gRegor jitsi and hangouts, heh
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gRegor Still recommend it because it handles the etherpad link and video link when archived
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[tantek] [schmarty] indeed it looks like you've identified a bit of community memory/culture that has yet to be externalized to the wiki
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[tantek] it's also shifted over time
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[tantek] e.g. recent (pre-pandemic) IWCs/IWS we (organizers) deliberately helped guide/encourage first time participants to propose their sessions first, so they wouldn't get "pushed out" by regulars / more experienced folks pitching things first
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gRegor Yeah, and I'd gotten in the habit of setting up a blank schedule grid with those iwc-session-links templates commented out so it was quicker to capture the grid on the wiki
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