#meta 2023-09-22

2023-09-22 UTC
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[tantek] MacOS/laptop hardware tip that may help reduce some crash-like problems and help with debugging. Turn off all forms of "turn off display" e.g. hot corners, screensavers, battery/power adapter energy settings. Slam the "turn off display" setting to like 3 hours so it never happens to you. It has repeatedly happened to me (display turned off) and then stayed *stuck* in with the display off no matter what I've done like close the lid
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[tantek] (sleep) and wake up, plug / unplug an external display, plug / unplug power, etc. I no longer trust "turn off display" to not once a while (every couple of weeks?) stay stuck that way.
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[tantek] Also go into your MacOS Settings / Sound panel / Sound Effects tab and check [x] Play feedback when volume changed. This will help you determine if/when your display goes dark whether or not everything has crashed or just the display, because you can press the volume up/down buttons and get an audio response if the system is still running.
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[tantek] Ah, I had set one of my Hot Corners in MacOS Settings / Desktop & Screen Saver to "Put Display to Sleep". Don't do that. That's buggy & unreliable (your display might not turn back on). Instead set it to "Lock Screen"
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tantek] hey that list of top edited wiki pages is better than I expected. time to fill it out a bit
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btrem [tantek] I've had an analagous problem with my Ubuntu desktop going to suspend mode, then when I wake it the box turns on (the led turns blue) but the display does not. Very annoying, as the only solution is to force shut down the pc and turn it on again. I -- like you -- have now disabled it. Though, unlike you, the screen saver works every time.
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btrem Just realized this is in meta. Sorry all, my reply probably belonged in chat. :-o
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[tantek] btrem, it's quite alright, I stuck it in meta myself to get it logged even though it is more chat-like
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[tantek] also maintaining one's own hardware in a reliable way is peripherally IndieWeb related
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[tantek] screensaver seems to be working ok so I'm no longer suspecting that. just display sleep is confirmed unreliable
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tantek.com edited /Emissary (+208) "IndieWeb Friendly section, Planned subsection" (view diff)
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[catgirlinspace] [tantek] running the sonoma beta and haven't ran into any issues like that. on an earlier beta though i did have an issue where sometimes after waking up my macbook it'd just be stuck on the lock screen for around 10 seconds with the little wait cursor. seems like that's fixed though.
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[KevinMarks] I have got sick of the MacOS admin tax of updating my dev machines. Their new releases are focused on this years hardware, and I don't trust them on previous hardware until x.x.4 versions, and their faffing around with demoable features has got a lot worse (Jobs was a better editor than Cook) I deliberately bought the last Intel iMac so my VMs for Linux and Windows would be more straightforward, but my Intel iMac and MacBook
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[KevinMarks] Pro are feeling orphaned now.
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] that's my feeling too about major new OS versions being primarily for new hardware, so better to keep existing hardware running on the major version it came with
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[tantek] Who else is getting ready for the Social CG meeting?
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aaronpk 👋
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[tantek] capjamesg, I didn't find the jitsi link on https://events.indieweb.org/2023/09/september-2023-swicg-community-meeting-TA731v5tOpFY which says it was going to be there 15min before the meeting
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Loqi [preview] LIVE NOW: September 2023 SWICG Community Meeting
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Loqi [Event Updated] aaronparecki.com updated "Sep 22, 2023 6:00am September 2023 SWICG Community Meeting" changed end_time https://events.indieweb.org/event/514/history/1414/diff
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aaronpk looks like a bug. i just updated the event with an end time and now the link appears
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[tantek] thanks to everyone who came to the Social CG meeting. draft minutes are at https://www.w3.org/2023/09/22-social-minutes.html and there's still a window to make corrections if you spot errors in things you said
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[manton] There was a minor error in something I said but I clarified in the chat later, so I think it’s fine.
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[KevinMarks] I said 17 down to 3, not 7 down to 3
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[manton] I’m not very familiar with the scribing process. Will get more comfortable later with more experience, I’m sure.
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[manton] (The transcript “indieweb proposed an Oauth2 profile for ActivityPub” should’ve been “Evan proposed”.)
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[tantek] looking now
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[manton] As a side note, I could get behind BobWyman’s comment at the end on a “broad but shallow” scope for the WG. ActivityPub-only seems too limiting.
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[tantek] yes did that get minuted?
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] [manton] reload https://www.w3.org/2023/09/22-social-minutes.html — I believe I fixed the errors you noted
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[manton] Perfect, thanks.
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[manton] Yes, it’s in the minutes near the very end.
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[KevinMarks] lgtm
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[tantek] great, LMK if you see any typos or other errors in anything else you said
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[Jo] When is the newletter sent out usually?
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] [Jo] usually 15:00 Pacific, and frozen at 14:00
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[tantek] er 14:50
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[tantek] what is the newsletter
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Loqi 📫 A newsletter is a regularly scheduled email that is sent out on a specific topic to an email list https://indieweb.org/newsletter
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[Jo] Okay thanks!
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[tantek] what is this week
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Loqi This Week in the IndieWeb is a weekly digest of activities of the IndieWeb community https://indieweb.org/this-week
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[tantek] ^ more details there 🙂
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] [aaronpk] I am going through the SocialCG meeting minutes and disambiguating aaron: scribing
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aaronpk oops I wasn't paying attention to the minutes closely, I thought he had noted "aaronpk" most of the time
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[tantek] should be all fixed now, reload https://www.w3.org/2023/09/22-social-minutes.html
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aaronpk [tantek]++ for cleaning up the socialcg minutes
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Loqi [tantek] has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (102 in all channels)
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[tantek] woot! didn't realize I finally broke 100! :face_holding_back_tears: 😂
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Loqi woot
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] alright, I believe I have done a reasonable job of Social CG minutes fix up and am going to park that for now. maybe onto newsletter related things (e.g. wiki gardening)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] nerd snipes are potentially useful in that they usually cause someone to go build / fix something that they were not otherwise prioritizing to do
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[tantek] dev trolls are topics that are nearly always time sinks without any productive outcome
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[tantek] ^ [snarfed]
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[tantek] and "flame wars" is both too general and not what this is. this kind of dev trolling (httprange14, SSL client certs) can and usually is perfectly civil without any flames
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[tantek] alright I'm going with dev trolls until someone comes up with a better term
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[tantek] what are dev trolls
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dev trolls" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dev trolls is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] dev trolls are topics that are brought up once in a while in the IndieWeb [[discuss]]ion channels, usually the "dev" channel, that consume quite a bit of time without any productive or actionable results, and have the impact of displacing otherwise useful conversations.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /dev_trolls (+297) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[schmarty] tarpits? rabbit holes? cans of worms? i feel like they can seem like straightforward things to discuss so i like the idea of emphasizing that they are a trap. :}
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loqi.me created /httprange14 (+25) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] traps is good and more neutral ok
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[tantek] but specifically dev topics because we have a short list we can document
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[tantek] what are dev traps
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dev traps" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dev traps is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] hmm maybe chat in particular
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[tantek] what are dev chat traps
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dev chat traps" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dev chat traps is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] dev chat traps are technical topics, questions, debates that are brought up once in a while in the IndieWeb [[discuss]]ion channels, usually the "dev" channel, that consume quite a bit of time without any productive or actionable results, and have the impact of displacing otherwise useful conversations.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /dev_chat_traps (+331) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /dev_trolls "not the new page name we wanted"
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[tantek] dev traps are /dev_chat_traps
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /dev_traps (+27) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] dev traps << HTTPRange-14
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Loqi ok, I added "[[HTTPRange-14]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /dev_chat_traps https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=89309&oldid=89307
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loqi.me edited /dev_chat_traps (+36) "[tantek] added "[[HTTPRange-14]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[tantek] dev traps << SSL client certs, especially as a method for server [[login]], or [[server]] to server [[authentication]]
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Loqi ok, I added "SSL client certs, especially as a method for server [[login]], or [[server]] to server [[authentication]]" to the "See Also" section of /dev_chat_traps https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=89310&oldid=89309
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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tantek.com edited /app (+372) "merge app TLD bc stub article not touched in 5+ years, no IndieWeb specific use documented" (view diff)
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[tantek] .app page untouched for 5 years, only a stub dfn + blog post, No pages link to it. merging it into /app
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tantek.com edited /.app (-260) "merged in to [[app]]. r there for disambig. page was page untouched for 5 years, only a stub dfn + blog post, No pages link to it" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is an app
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Loqi App typically refers to a native app, usually a less functional version of a web site that is usually restricted to one or more proprietary platforms, but may also refer to the .app top level domain setup by Google that requires HTTPS https://indieweb.org/.app
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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tantek.com edited /dev_chat_traps (+335) "Examples, How to not" (view diff)
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c​apjamesg TIL about HTTPRange-14.
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[KevinMarks] I'm so sorry
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c​apjamesg 😅
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[tantek] now you know to avoid it
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[KevinMarks] if my know was up I'd link to http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/it-wasnt-what-prose-said-that-interested-miss-groby-it
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[tantek] can you link to the Internet Archive version?
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[KevinMarks] nope, that crawled during a redirect to the withknown homepage too
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[KevinMarks] HTTPRange-14 << https://www.kevinmarks.com/missgroby.html
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.kevinmarks.com/missgroby.html" to the "See Also" section of /HTTPRange-14 https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=89314&oldid=74906
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[KevinMarks] Hm, I didn't realise it would insert the whole story in the wiki
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www.kevinmarks.com edited /HTTPRange-14 () "(-5732) remove huge quote" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] Well done [KevinMarks], you've now trolled the newsletter
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c​apjamesg 🤣
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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tantek.com edited /webapp2 (+8) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webapp2 (+42) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webapp2 (+115) "stub empty IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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[schmarty] what is webapp2?
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Loqi webapp2 is a lightweight Python web framework designed to run in environments similar to Google App Engine https://indieweb.org/webapp2
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[schmarty] oh right!
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[tantek] found it while looking for webapp, which, sigh has a pretty bad dfn etc. though quite relevant to IndieWeb
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tantek.com edited /web_application (+33) "dfn markup" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_application (+346) "dejargonify dfn a bit, stub Why, How to" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is a webapp
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Loqi A web application or web app is an application written in web technologies that runs in a web browser, and sometimes standalone on some devices https://indieweb.org/webapp
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tantek.com edited /web_application (+96) "technologies & techniques" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /web_application (+43) "[tantek] added "[[Progressive Web App]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /app (+164) "How not to" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /app (+104) "Criticism section rather than The Problem, Disadvantages with breaking links subsection" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /app (-12) "shorten heading" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Emissary (+40) "start features list" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Emissary (+18) "note ActivityPub building block support" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTML (+14) "start a How to section with a quote from SA" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTML (+7) "stub humor" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTML (+44) "move quotes from SA to Quotes section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_application (+619) "move some how to guidance from the HTML page to here" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTML () "(-551) move how to web apps to web apps page" (view diff)
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[tantek] uh where's the 14:00 newsletter?
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[tantek] aaronpk, did I break something?
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[tantek] with newsletter generation
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aaronpk Loqi was busy in #indieweb-dev
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[tantek] lolwut
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aaronpk Got distracted I guess
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c​apjamesg 🤣
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tantek.com edited /plurality (+30) "quotes and opposites" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /plurality (+7) "lower TOC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy_Fed (+36) "Testimonials section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy_Fed (+120) "broader dfn of capabilities beyond "connect"" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct (+20) "move an SA to Testimonials" (view diff)
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[tantek] much better
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct-examples (+56) "move an example here from code of conduct" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct (-59) "move an example to the examples page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_application (-17) "dedup SA sections" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2023-09-22.html
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[tantek] newsletter looks good
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tantek.com edited /glossary (+264) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add another example that illustrates order of post glossary vs footnotes sections (footnotes stay at the bottom, still the footer)" (view diff)
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