#meta 2024-02-02

2024-02-02 UTC
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mandarismoore.com edited /User:Mandarismoore.com (+437) (view diff)
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mandarismoore.com edited /User:Mandarismoore.com (+21) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Infobox_person/doc (+130) "/* Incorporating other templates */ +mastodon-link example" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Infobox_person/doc (-92) "/* Examples */ update my example" (view diff)
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gRegor !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/01/homebrew-website-club-pacific-l8jJrVJmiF7q events/2024-01-31-hwc-pacific
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-01-31-hwc-pacific. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-01-31-hwc-pacific (+7940) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2024-01-31-hwc-pacific (-168) "cleanup" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+76) "1/31 HWCs" (view diff)
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gRegor GWG and I did try to enable chat in Zoom last night for hosts and cohosts only, to broadcast chat and etherpad links. Didn't see an option, so I think the account-level lock on chat would need to be turned off, then hosts would need to restrict meetings individually. Not great, might not be worth it :/
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GWG Seems like an aaronpk question
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gRegor Well sure, but I guess my concern is if we do enable it at the account level, then it's easy to accidentally not turn it off in a meeting, so some discussion might get lost
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gRegor Might be easier to continue directing people to the event permalink which has the chat and etherpad links
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aaronpk there is an option "Only users in your account can chat"
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aaronpk which sounds to me like then only the host can chat, since everyone else is a guest
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aaronpk i just enabled that if anyone wants to test
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gRegor Ah, cool!
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GWG I'm happy to try whenever.
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GWG I'm doing my Isometric Cervical Extensions right now though
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mandarismoore.com edited /User:Mandarismoore.com (+68) (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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mandarismoore.com created /Template:mandaris (+144) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|1=http://micro.blog/mandaris/avatar.jpg}} [[User:Mandarismoore.com|mandaris]]</span>"" (view diff)
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mandarismoore.com edited /User:Mandarismoore.com (-66) (view diff)
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mandarismoore.com edited /events/2024-01-31-hwc-europe (+15) (view diff)
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vhbelvadi.com edited /wikifying (+16) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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vhbelvadi.com edited /User:Vhbelvadi.com (+1886) "Major updates" (view diff)
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vhbelvadi.com edited /User:Vhbelvadi.com (+30) (view diff)
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vhbelvadi.com edited /User:Vhbelvadi.com (+727) "Manifesto updated" (view diff)
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vhbelvadi.com edited /User:Vhbelvadi.com (+722) (view diff)
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shkspr.mobi blog created /User:Shkspr.mobi_blog (+48) "Created page with "All my contact details are on https://edent.tel/"" (view diff)
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shkspr.mobi blog created /User:Shkspr.mobi (+86) "Created page with "All my contact details are on https://edent.tel/ My blog is https://shkspr.mobi/blog/"" (view diff)
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floppy.org.uk created /User:Floppy.org.uk (+326) "Added my user page" (view diff)
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floppy.org.uk created /Template:floppy (+150) "Added sparkline for floppy" (view diff)
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floppy.org.uk edited /2024/Brighton (+112) "/* Remote */ added floppy" (view diff)
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ohhelloana.blog edited /2024/Brighton (+12) "/* In person */" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
Guest6 joined the channel
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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[KevinMarks] I thought I huffduffed [snarfed]'s interview
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[tantek] did you tag it #indieweb?
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[KevinMarks] I just redid it
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[KevinMarks] I think there's a fight between installing huffduffer and the bookmarklets
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
[Joe_Crawford] and gRegor joined the channel
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[KevinMarks] There we go
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gRegor haha, great title "Ryan Barrett has a bridge to sell us"
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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[tantek] "Ryan Barrett is building bridges for us" would be more accurate since you can't buy (or pay for!) Bridgy
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 92829 of [[User:Shkspr.mobi]] patrolled" (view diff)
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[tantek] hmm how do we de-dup shkspr mobi and shkspr mobi blog ?
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[tantek] Newsletter has them as two "New Community Members" but they are the same person
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gRegor I was wondering, didn't think you could sign in to the wiki with a path, just domain
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[tantek] if I redirect one to the other will that work?
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aaronpk it is already a redirect
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aaronpk not sure why it's showing up in the newsletter twice then
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[tantek] it's not a redirect, they are two different User: pages with slightly different content
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/Special:Contributions/Shkspr.mobi_blog has a history of edits while https://indieweb.org/Special:Contributions/Shkspr.mobi does not
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[tantek] edent, you around in IRC?
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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tantek.com edited /User:Shkspr.mobi (-51) "redirect to the login that has a User contribution history since this one does not. can undo this if/when this is used as the primary login instead" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /User:Shkspr.mobi_blog (+38) "merge content from [[User:Shkspr.mobi]]" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ now there's a redirect. that should at least de-dupe for the newsletter. then we can have the the path or pathless identity and how that should work on the wiki chat later
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aaronpk oh different user
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[tantek] right, they both showed up in the newsletter. see this for the next 5 min: https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html#new-community-members
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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[tantek] Ooof any idea how / why that last new User: in that list has so many paths? wplog? Is this a WordPress identity / IndieAuth bug?
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gRegor Blog is at /wplog, WP author pages are then at sub path /author/username. Guessing IndieAuth is returning that as the final "me"
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gRegor Since WP can have multiple authors
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aaronpk no i was talking about this one https://indieweb.org/User:Francesco_Figari
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[tantek] aaronpk yeah that looks like a misuse of User:
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[tantek] because e.g. it has no contributions
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[tantek] whereas the actual sign-in does have User contributions: https://indieweb.org/Special:Contributions/Fran.fi
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[tantek] which tbh is part of the point of User: pages
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[tantek] do we need to add a section to /wikify to NOT create random User: pages for cosmetic reasons because User: pages serve a transparency role of directly link to what someone contributes to the wiki?
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[tantek] Francesco are you around in chat?
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[tantek] aaronpk, gRegor, WDYT? Should I document that as guidance or a rule on /wikify and then redirect the non-URL User: to one that actually shows contributions?
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gRegor Maybe. We could also restrict redirecting User: pages?
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aaronpk ohh does it break the contributions?
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[tantek] yes aaronpk
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aaronpk hm yeah then we should allow redirecting user pages
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[tantek] wait, we do already
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[tantek] "allow redirecting user pages"
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[tantek] the point is when someone redirects the wrong direction
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gRegor Either way, yes, some guidance would be good on /wikify explaining. This was their reasoning for the redirect: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-02-01#t1706812759775800
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[tantek] the use-case for redirecting user pages isn't vanity User pages, it's when someone starts using a new domain
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gRegor Right
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[tantek] and wants to redirect their old User: page to the new one
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Loqi [preview] [fran.fi] moved /User:Fran.fi to /User:Francesco_Figari "URLs are nice, but names are better"
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[tantek] yes I saw that edit summary and it shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of User: pages, which is why I suggested some docs for hopefully discovery and at least something to point to if/when someone shows up and asks why their User: pages got changed
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+1507) "/* Step One: Create your user page */ draft Avoid creating vanity User pages" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegor, please review: https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Avoid_creating_vanity_User_pages
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loqi.me created /plain_text_first (+30) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] [tantek] PostHaven and the WP plan were already on the longevity
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[aciccarello] page*
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[aciccarello] https://indieweb.org/longevity#Other_Paid/Commercial_Services
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[tantek] well then could have linked to them there instead of reposting here? perhaps /longevity needs some gardening. I didn't find either by doing some simple text searches
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[aciccarello] Agreed, it should be easier to find on that page
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gRegor GWG, do we have documented how to migrate YouTube indieweb videos to archive.org?
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GWG gRegor: Yes and No
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GWG We've documented how to archive videos.
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GWG I downloaded all the YouTube ones and did a bunch and even cut the recordings that covered the whole day into sessions
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gRegor Was poking through 2019/Austin and realized some could be moved, I'm willing to help
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GWG But, I haven't continued in a while.
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GWG What is remote participation?
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Loqi remote participation refers to good practices for enabling people to take part in IndieWebCamp events at a different location and collaboration across locations https://indieweb.org/remote_participation
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GWG The archiving instructions are on there
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GWG I have a few steps to add though
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GWG [chrisaldrich] talked me into adding an audio feed
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gRegor Thanks, I'll take a look
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gRegor Though might be limited to just moving the videos over, not editing
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[tantek] gRegor, given that our old(er) IndieWeb YouTube videos are likely linked from other places on the web, perhaps we need a specific approach to "migration" that keeps the old videos around (but maybe links from their descriptions to their Internet Archive new canonical locations?)
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david.shanske.com edited /remote_participation (+185) "/* Archiving */" (view diff)
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GWG Added the extra step.
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GWG [tantek]: I don't think we're deleting them from YouTube, are we?
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GWG I think we're just updating the wiki to the new ones.
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gregorlove.com edited /2019/Austin/microformats (+99) "+watch link" (view diff)
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gRegor [tantek], Oh, yes, I think we've only copied YT to Archive in the past, then link/embed the Archive ones on wiki. Don't think we've removed any YT ones.
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GWG And restoring old video is a nice little project I may do more of again as well.
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GWG Restoring as in, cutting into sessions, and restoring it to the community
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gRegor Nice
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[tantek] gRegor LMK what you think of https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Avoid_creating_vanity_User_pages and it is sufficiently "new person friendly" so that if/when we fix/move someone's User: page (and link to that) they (1) don't feel discouraged, and (2) feel invited/included to chat more to understand better
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gRegor Sure, just a moment
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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david.shanske.com edited /remote_participation (+12) "/* Archiving */" (view diff)
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gRegor [tantek] Sounds good overall. Perhaps a bit clearer first sentence: 'Please do not create vanity "User:" pages, because the point of your "User:" page is to provide a profile for your actual login (on the IndieWeb wiki, your domain) and your wiki contributions are linked to that profile.'
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[tantek] ^ yes please! please make that edit
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gRegor Ok
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (+35) "/* Avoid creating vanity User pages */ rephrase 1st sentence" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] [tantek] I'm not sure I would understand what "vanity user pages" means if I was new
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gRegor good point
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[aciccarello] I assume that means a user page other than the one created when you log in with your domain. Right?
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gregorlove.com edited /to-do (+130) "/* Move YouTube archived content to archive.org */ link to /remote_participation#Archiving, start list of schedule grids with videos to be copied" (view diff)
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gRegor Good point, yeah could explain it's your domain by default, avoid changing to your name or nickname
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gregorlove.com edited /to-do (+110) "/* Move YouTube archived content to archive.org */ more schedules with YT links" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] Maybe say "non-url" rather than "vanity" as that's a mostly US term
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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gRegor Making some updates to it now
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (+58) "/* Avoid creating vanity User pages */ change to "vanity" to "separate user pages", rephrase 1st sentence to explain" (view diff)
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gRegor [aciccarello], [KevinMarks], [tantek] for review: https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Avoid_creating_separate_User_pages
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[aciccarello] That seems much more understandable. gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (93 in all channels)
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[aciccarello] Also appreciate the gracious language around mistakes
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[aciccarello] [tantek]++ for the initial documentation
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Loqi [tantek] has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (103 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] That's a lot clearer. Well done both
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aaronpk :+1:
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[tantek] The power of collaboration! Great improvements gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 40 karma in this channel over the last year (94 in all channels)
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[tantek] Thanks for the reviews aciccarello [KevinMarks] aaronpk
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gRegor heh, looking over https://indieweb.org/longevity#Other_Paid/Commercial_Services, the first one "Eternime" links to a domain for sale
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gRegor longevity is hard!
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gRegor And honestly can't tell if the Eter9 one is gone, pivoting, or whatnot
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (+144) "/* Other Paid/Commercial Services */ subsections, previously" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] oof. That's bad given the context.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (+406) "/* Posthaven */ quote+link their pledge" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Posthaven (+33) "r" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] 2 months ago Eternime redirected to this medium post about an AI version of yourself https://medium.com/@mariusursache/the-journey-to-digital-immortality-33fcbd79949
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gRegor oh no
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[aciccarello] The post was from 2015 so I'm wondering if it was never indieweb relevant
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gRegor Added there 2018 https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=longevity&diff=prev&oldid=50182
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gRegor http://web.archive.org/web/20180801212219/http://eterni.me/
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www.ciccarello.me edited /longevity (-108) "/* Other Paid/Commercial Services */ removed eterni.me as it never launched and isn't IndieWeb relevant" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] Just removed it. Feel free to revert if you disagree.
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gRegor sounds good to me. Eter9 probably not relevant either: http://web.archive.org/web/20180803194605/https://www.eter9.com/auth/login
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[aciccarello] I'm wondering if we should split the website related services and general digital services
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[aciccarello] Or at least make that split more explicit
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gRegor Sounds reasonable, from Chris' edit sounds like it was meant to be sifted through later
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (-144) "/* See Also */ rm posthaven, wp 100 year plan, duplicate links" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (+44) "/* Posthaven */ +archive mode link" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegor++ for the garderning
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[User:Francesco Figari]] to [[User:Fran.fi]] over redirect: User pages are for domain identity per https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Avoid_creating_separate_User_pages, please join chat.indieweb.org for any questions!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/delete () "Tantek.com deleted redirect [[User:Fran.fi]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[User:Francesco Figari]]"" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok, weird that that (either variant) User page disappeared from the newsletter
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[tantek] hopefully my fix will work in the next Newsletter
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[tantek] ... update
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gRegor I think it's an issue with the query we use to fetch "new" pages. I know if an event page is redirected (i.e. fixing the slug), it won't appear in the "new event notes" section.
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-02-02.html
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[tantek] Organizers << Thread to read/consider applicability for the IndieWeb community: https://mastodon.social/@mhoye/109359421531179769
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Loqi ok, I added "Thread to read/consider applicability for the IndieWeb community: https://mastodon.social/@mhoye/109359421531179769" to the "See Also" section of /Organizers https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=92864&oldid=83509
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[tantek] ^ capjamesg[d], did you get a chance to read those resources on avoiding/keeping out toxic people from communities? this post (and its thread) has some good additional reasoning about it
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gRegor Good thread
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gRegor Just noticed it's from 2022, about the masto reporting flow, and in the replies "still an issue" in December 2023
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[tantek] exactly