#meta 2024-08-30

2024-08-30 UTC
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loqi.me created /Google_Trends (+181) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google_Trends (+199) "link dfn, Features / Embed, See Also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google_Trends (+497) "How to embed" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+1) "]]" (view diff)
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[tantek] time for some more wiki gardening
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islandinthenet.com edited /User:Islandinthenet.com (-100) (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /User:Islandinthenet.com (-6) "/* Website */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /User:Islandinthenet.com (-85) (view diff)
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[tantek] er, wikifying
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+33) "see also intros" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /indiewebring to /IndieWeb_Webring "canonical casing on the website"
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tantek.com edited /indieweb_webring (+4) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWeb_web_ring (+4) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /🕸💍 (+4) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /indieweb-ring (+4) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /indieweb_ring (+4) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+4900) "archive from chat logs, clean up formatting, typos, some uppercasing, wiki-linking, https" (view diff)
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[tantek] IWC PDX Demos notes by [schmarty] now archived at https://indieweb.org/2024/Portland/Demos — please take a look if you demo's and feel free to edit your demo description with additional fixes, clarifications, details of what you demonstrated!
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (-9) "not a stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Intros (+26) "/* See Also */ Demos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (-1) "IndieWebCamp demos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+14) "Portland 2024" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+79) "live thread by kevinmarks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+166) "/* Kevin Marks */ link to his thread" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Intros (+650) "lots local wiki linking, capitalization, linebreaking, and formatting for readability" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /IWC_Baltimore_2018 (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Intros (+0) "W" (view diff)
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[tantek] cleaned up https://indieweb.org/2024/Portland/Intros as well — check out your intro if you were at IWC PDX at feel free to edit further, clarify, add details etc.
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tantek.com edited /web_component (-3) "-<<" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (-16) "de-dupe IWC 2024 in dfn, similar to /intros" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2024-238-iwc-Portland.jpeg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2024-238-iwc-Portland.jpeg"
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tantek.com moved /File:2024-238-iwc-Portland.jpeg to /File:2024-238-iwc-portland.jpeg "lowercase not capitalized like iOS changed it"
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tantek.com edited /Google_Trends (+394) "we should improve society somewhat example iframe src" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2024/Portland/Intros (+4) "/* David Millar */ sparkline" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (+270) "embed group photo, not a stub, 10th IWC PDX, some layout tweaks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (-26) "/* Notes */ copied the only note" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok I think https://indieweb.org/2024/Portland is looking reasonably good too — tried a little different event photo + emojicon styling for sections than before, definitely curious what people think of the changes
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (-8) "/* Schedule */ -working" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2024/Portland/Planning (+2366) "stub from Planning" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning () "(-1990) archive 2024 Portland, setup minimal 2025 Portland section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Planning (+91) "cat, SA" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (+40) "cat" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Intros (+40) "cat" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+40) "cat" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Portland_2024 (+17) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Düsseldorf/Planning (-9) "not a stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Planning (-9) "not a stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Planning (+0) "typo" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+141) "+Participants list" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Demos (+479) "+Marty McGuire" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-7) "/* Portland */ more than venue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (+522) "moved up Posts about the camp, added mine, CTA" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (-86) "/* Planning */ archived" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (+4) "/* Organizers */ check list done lol" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland/Planning (+400) "archive checklist" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (-373) "archive check list to planning page" (view diff)
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[tantek] wikifying/gardening done for now
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tantek.com edited /2024/Portland (+9) "clear" (view diff)
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parnikkapore.neocities.org edited /chat-names (+191) "Add myself (+ my other irc nick)" (view diff)
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Guest3269 /msg nickserv help
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[schmarty] tantek++ wowowow
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Loqi tantek has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed aaronpk/IndieNews to https://news.indieweb.org
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed aaronpk/IndieNews to https://news.indieweb.org
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
lazcorp joined the channel
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
to2ds joined the channel
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loqi.me created /Open_Website_Alliance (+154) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Open_Web_Manifesto (+150) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
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aaronpk "I'd ensure that the homepage said, before anything else, that if you're renting a domain and hosting a site on that domain, you're already part of the IndieWeb" this is a good point tho
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[schmarty] yep! might be time for us to admit the three-path-homepage project has not materialized in a timely fashion and thinking about some simpler updates 😂
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aaronpk perhaps we should switch the order of the paragraph at the top, since right now it is "connected by open standards and based on the principles of..."
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aaronpk principles first, standards second?
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[schmarty] i like that.
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[schmarty] i'm also thinking about the call to "Experiments should be clearly marked as such. Stuff that no longer works should also be marked, or archived." i don't think these are reasonable asks for a community wiki, but it does have me thinking that my assertion that the wiki is a memory of experiments isn't necessarily reflected on the wiki itself.
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aaronpk i mean half the pages have {{stub}} already long after they aren't a stub
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[mattl] I really want to make joining the indieweb as simple as this image
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[mattl] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2024/08/meta-20240830-175934-image.png
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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[schmarty] mattl++ now cue the commentariat pointing out that guitars cost money and that's exclusionary
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Loqi mattl has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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aaronpk hahaha
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Loqi awesome
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aaronparecki.com edited /discuss (+9) "add bridging in the first sentence" (view diff)
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[mattl] [schmarty]
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[mattl] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2024/08/meta-20240830-180519-image.png
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gRegor Hahah
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[schmarty] hahaha yesssss
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gRegor Anyway, here's indieweb
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[mattl] domain names and hosting arguably cost more than a guitar
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aaronpk !calc average price of a guitar
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Loqi median | $349.99 highest | $1599.99 (Fender - Eric Clapton Stratocaster, Maple Fretboard - Black) lowest | $29.99 (Axe Heaven - Randy Rhoads Harpoon Polka Dot Flying V Replica Guitar) distribution |
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[mattl] but... it would be very cool if there was just a little PHP script or whatever you could put on basically *any* hosting and it would give you a little indieweb site that you could edit.
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[mattl] I think I'm volunteering to make that, aren't I?
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aaronpk i really want that too
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[mattl] I think we discussed that idea over indian food about 5 years ago.
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[mattl] My head keeps telling me I should write a nice GUI to a static site generator instead. So you have http://example.com/indieweb.php and it generates your index.html and your now/index.html for you...
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jimw Yes, I think that's a real void in the space right now. You have fully-dynamic stuff like WP, filesystem-backed static site generators (just run this command-line tool!), and nothing like the original Blogger, which was database-backed but generated a static site.
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aaronpk i'm not sold on static site generators in general, i always find i want more dynamic features than they can provide
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aaronpk but i do want an easy to install minimal site so I can quickly spin up a new blog with some basic features
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aaronpk but every time i start writing out the list of what it should do, it explodes into being basically what i have right now as my website, which is...a lot
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aaronpk and since some of the features are non trivial, it usually ends up turning into something that's going to require some external libraries, and maybe a job queue, and then that turns into a massive maintenance project keeping everything up to date and working on whatever N php versions you care about
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aaronpk :sigh:
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jimw Yeah, I think the part where I always stumble when thinking about static generation is that I want a reasonable on-site search.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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aaronpk the other one for me is protected / access controlled posts
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gRegor There can be some file permission issues on shared hosting with PHP creating files, too. They usually end up owned by the server "nobody" user, then later you might have issues if you need to manually edit or delete the file.
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jimw Yeah, and even setting up the permissions so the web server can write somewhere can be an issue, too. You don't really want that space to be somewhere the web server directly serves up the files, but often that's the best you can do and you end up with WP nightmares.
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aaronpk maybe i need to revisit my feature list with fresh eyes, it's been a couple years at least
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aaronpk where even is my list? 🤔
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aaronpk oh my
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aaronpk it's from before i started using Notion, last updated in 2018
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[marksuth] I am slowly making the repo for my site (Laravel based with DB) into a reusable site that can essentially be made with a git clone and composer install. The main thing lacking is any form of docs to cover the quirks
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aaronpk i like laravel a lot, my main problem with it is you have to plan at least yearly upgrades of _everything_, every library you use with it, and keep up to date with all the internal API changes they do between versions
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aaronpk and the more features you add, the more libraries you use, the more chances there are of one of the libraries getting stale and not working with a new version
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aaronpk or maybe this is just me turning into a bitter old man
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[marksuth] True, I did a complete reset of my site code when v11 came out, least of which to reduce the amount of stuff outside the vendor directory
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aaronpk oh boy i haven't even looked at v11 yet
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aaronpk "Laravel 11 introduces a new default application structure with fewer default files. Namely, new Laravel applications contain fewer service providers, middleware, and configuration files." well that sounds nice but omg srsly
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aaronpk everyone just calm down
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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[mattl] "fewer service providers!"
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[schmarty] I'm making the mistake of rebuilding all the nice Laravel or slim or whatever php framework bits out of phpleague building blocks because they rarely seem to break compatibility 🙈
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[mattl] I gave up trying to learn Laravel... the gap between the version my job was using and the current stuff was too big.
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aaronpk aha found a slightly newer text file from 2019
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jimw I've used Slim for some personal projects and only know Laravel and other PHP frameworks by reputation, and I think if I were doing new development for myself I'd probably stay away from them all.
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[tantek] domains and hosting are cheaper than most people spend on coffee
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[tantek] the cost issue is bs that trolls or cranky internet folks trot out
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[tantek] also there is nothing "simple" about that chords image. so much expert knowledge assumed. might actually be easier to setup http://micro.blog than understand that image
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jimw Yeah. ~$12/year for a domain, $2/month for a virtual server that's going to be able to handle the load of most personal sites.
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lucien.nogues.ca edited /Template:bluesky-link (+7) (view diff)
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gRegor Or $5/mo for micro.blog with no admintax
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[tantek] ^ this
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gRegor options, we've got options, get your options
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[0x3b0b] If you even need that, jimw. My site fits comfortably on Oracle Cloud free tier. Some people who prefer to self-host would certainly prefer a cheap vps over a free tier on one of the giants, of course.
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[mattl] @jimw Where are you seeing these $2 virtual servers?
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jimw [0x3b0b] yes, i failed at trying to use the oracle free tier but i think i know what i did wrong now and could probably make that work.
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jimw [mattl] ionos
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jimw but yes, admintax not included in my pricing.
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[tantek] what is web hosting
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Loqi Web hosting can be the primary regular cost in maintaining an IndieWeb site; this page lists several options from free on up depending on your publishing needs, like a static, shared, private, or dedicated server https://indieweb.org/web_hosting
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[mattl] Wow, $2 is a great deal.
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[tantek] jimw can you add a link to the Ionos pricing/service page that has the $2 price to /web_hosting?
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[0x3b0b] I think I finally canceled my CloudAtCost hosting about a year ago because I wasn't using it. I bought it on sale for $42 in 2016 and paid $9 a year for it six times, so I guess it ended up being about $1.14 a month for the time I had it.
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[mattl] Have you seen Derek Sivers' page on this stuff? https://sive.rs/ti
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trainedmonkey.com edited /web_hosting (+93) "Added link for IONOS" (view diff)
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[0x3b0b] I think I found CloudAtCost through lowendbox.com
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[mattl] I don't agree with the idea that people will want to handle their email in `mutt` in 2024 but it's a nice list.
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jimw I have considered going back to mutt, but yeah.
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[mattl] https://lowendbox.com/blog/1-vps-1-usd-vps-per-month/ is fascinating
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[mattl] @jimw I could see someone going back to it. I can't see someone starting with it in 2024.
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Loqi [preview] Jon Biloh
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jimw what originally led me to ionos was looking for hosting that at least claimed to be green / sustainable.
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[mattl] My host cools their datacenter using the natural fresh air as much as possible. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/company/data-centres/yo26/
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jimw nice.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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loqi.me created /CityDesk (+112) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Plone (+123) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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[tantek] what is green
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Loqi Green Computing is practice of using computers and their resources in environmentally responsible way. Community members may try to use renewable energy, recycled computers, owning rather than streaming media, and creating websites with smaller page loads https://indieweb.org/green
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[tantek] jimw, [mattl], feel free to add notes about more sustainable web hosts there too ^ /green
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[tantek] today's a good day for wiki edits. it's newsletter day!
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gRegor !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/08/homebrew-website-club-pacific-pl5qy3HDEOhb events/2024-08-28-hwc-pacific
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-08-28-hwc-pacific. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-08-28-hwc-pacific (+2070) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-08-28-hwc-pacific (+16) (view diff)
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Aug 28, 2024 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed description "+wiki notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/646/history/1814/diff
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GWG aaronpk: Isn't that why Compass has a problem with newer PHPs? The task of fixing dependencies?
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+135) "08/28 HWCs" (view diff)
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Aug 28, 2024 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description "+wiki notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/642/history/1815/diff
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aaronpk yes
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GWG Maintenance tax strikes again
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[tantek] hey at least you're not dependent on node
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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[tantek] hey indieweb folks that went to XOXO, did you capture any particularly "indieweb-resonant" photos at XOXO like during the talks?
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[tantek] I have a few of Molly White with her slides, also Erin Kissane, and Darius K., the latter two I think with the caption screen which captured some good indieweb-relevant text
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[tantek] looking to add a few to the XOXO event on events.indieweb for the Newsletter
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[tantek] figured I'd ask if folks had some before I added my own
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[tantek] specifically looking for photos at XOXO "in general" beyond the IndieWeb / fedi / Masto related meetups/lunches which we already had specific events (and photos!) for
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gRegor Closest I have is the slide of the Google sign with Spirit Halloween banner being pulled over it. Didn't come out great since shot of the screen in the tent, but funny.
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[tantek] haha that's hilarious
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[tantek] btw, re: XOXO photos, there's also an XOXO group on Flickr if anyone wants to POSSE over there: https://www.flickr.com/groups/xoxofest/
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gRegor https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/san-francisco-google-offices-prank-halloween-16474211.php
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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tantek.com deleted /Open_Web_Manifesto "no specific indieweb-relevance, moving content to Drupal page"
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tantek.com edited /Drupal (+103) "move page content of Open Web Manifesto to See Also here, no obvious IndieWeb relevance to merit its own page" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /Open_Website_Alliance "no specific indieweb-relevance, moving content to CMS page which seems closest in relation"
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tantek.com edited /content_management_system (+425) "move content of Open Website Alliance page content here as its closest in relevance, and didn't seem to have its own direct indieweb relevance to merit its own page" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-08-30.html
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tantek.com deleted /CityDesk "no specific indieweb-relevance, moving content to CMS page"
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tantek.com edited /content_management_system (+126) "start Defunct section with moving CityDesk here since it has no direct indieweb relevance of its own" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /CityDesk (+47) "redirect since someone asked about it to create it to section where it's documented" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Plone (+164) "no known current IndieWeb Examples, move mattl to Past Examples, SA CMS" (view diff)
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[tantek] cleaned it up a bit before it went out
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