#meta 2026-01-16

2026-01-16 UTC
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osteophage.neocities.org edited /large_language_model (+279) "added Ana Tudor writeup about bad code" (view diff)
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alexhsu.com edited /IndieWeb_Carnival (+2) (view diff)
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alexhsu.com created /User:Alexhsu.com (+341) "Indie Dev / Writer" (view diff)
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alexhsu.com created /Template:alexhsu (+132) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|1=https://alexhsu.com/profile.jpg}} [[User:alexhsu.com|Alex Hsu]]</span>"" (view diff)
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alexhsu.com edited /IndieWeb_Carnival (-22) "/* 2026 */" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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loqi.me created /HTTP_Archive (+315) "prompted by [morgan] and dfn added by [morgan]" (view diff)
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johnwbrandes.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:johnwbrandes.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:johnwbrandes.jpg"
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johnwbrandes.com created /User:Johnwbrandes.com (+1657) "My first indieweb page" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-popups (-165) "update from https://events.indieweb.org/tag/popup" (view diff)
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zacharykai.net edited /indieweb_directory (+68) "/* {{zachary.kai}}'s Web Directories */" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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zachary_kai Just trying to see if this works if I join from IRC. Getting my methods in order!
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gRegor hello hello, test received
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gRegor [Al_Abut], I forget, did we take a group photo for the movie club? If so can you upload it to https://events.indieweb.org/2026/01/january-movie-club-DvPcQUkN8eBo so it goes out in the newsletter?
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zachary_kai +gRegor How do I join the main indieweb channel via IRC? librea.chat keeps defaulting to #indieweb-travel when I try to join.
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gRegor That's odd. `/join #indieweb` should be the syntax
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[tantek] lol what is indieweb-travel
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[tantek] Check it out and report back 😆
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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gRegor heh, only jeremycherfas, sknebel, Zegnat, and myself in there
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gRegor sorry if we uncovered the top secret side chat :D
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zachary_kai Just sending this message to myself to see if this works #indieweb
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gRegor That was sent in the meta channel
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gRegor https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2026-01-16#t1768586560198400
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zachary_kai I sent that message to myself so I could click on the channel link to join it. So that worked! Huzzah. Thank you very much +gRegor
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gRegor ah nice!
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gRegor What IRC program are you using?
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zachary_kai I'm using the web client courtesy of libera.chat as my computer would explode if I added another program!
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gRegor haha
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gRegor I think after the spam we did make the channel "invisible" which means it doesn't show up when you list channels on Libera, though I would expect there should still be an option to join directly. At least the direct link option worked.
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zacharykai.net edited /Template:zachary.kai (+5) (view diff)
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zacharykai.net edited /User:Zacharykai.net (+5) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /commentpara.de (-174) "rm my 2023 github issue link; issue was fixed" (view diff)
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zacharykaiwrites So to achieve consistency across IRC, Discord, the IndieWeb chat log, and Slack, I've changed my username to zacharykaiwrites so hopefully now I won't come up as seven different variations when I switch platforms.
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eunoia.sayitditto.net created /Template:girlonthemoon (+164) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|1=https://eunoia.sayitditto.net/images/random-icons/011.png}} [[User:Eunoia.sayitditto.net|melo]]</span>"" (view diff)
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girlonthemoon not sure what i'm doing... trying to make one of those {{person}} templates for myself
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zacharykaiwrites Oooh let me help! One moment.
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zacharykaiwrites Here's the tutorial on how to do it. https://indieweb.org/Tutorial-set-up-your-personal-wiki-template
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girlonthemoon zacharykaiwrites: i kinda just copied yours tbh 😅
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girlonthemoon OHHH ty for the tutorial!
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zacharykaiwrites No worries, and I've checked it, it seems to be working for me.
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girlonthemoon thank you!
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zacharykai.net edited /chat-names (+5) "/* Z */" (view diff)
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zacharykaiwrites You'll need to add it to this page, also: https://indieweb.org/chat-names
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eunoia.sayitditto.net edited /88x31 (+176) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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girlonthemoon good to know! will do that 🫡
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zacharykaiwrites +gRegor Now my avatar comes up when I send via IRC in discord but not in Slack. Is there a specific reason for that?
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eunoia.sayitditto.net edited /chat-names (+60) (view diff)
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gRegor zacharykaiwrites, you can add your IRC chat alias on /chat-names. It's ok to have multiple on there.
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gRegor I have both gRegor and gRegorLove on there for example
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gRegor Oh, I see this new nick of yours on there. It is cache briefly
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gRegor Also I misread; think you were asking about the avatar showing up in Discord. I'm not familiar with that process
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zacharykaiwrites I've added it, that's good to know, thank you! It's showing up in discord alright, but not Slack. Yours does and I was just wondering why.
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[tantek] I see it in Slack now zacharykaiwrites!
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gRegor oh nice! yeah, probably the similar cache delay to chat.indieweb.org, maybe a bit longer with the bridged chats
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zacharykaiwrites Oooh wonderful, how cool! Thank you both so much!
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gregorlove.com edited /Etherpad (+56) "/* Using Cali */ nowiki example links, YYYY-MM-DD in event slugs" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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artlung.com edited /IndieNews (+182) "adding link to Twig template code I used to accomplish IndieNews bookmark submission" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Etherpad (+404) "+FAQ section, What are the curly brackets around nicknames" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Tutorial-set-up-your-personal-wiki-template (+280) "/* How To */ clarify saving and previewing, note about bold text and link removal when viewing directly on the page it links to (your wiki user page)" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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adamsaunders.net edited /User:Adamsaunders.net (+223) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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[Al_Abut] [gRegorLove] photo added!
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gRegor huzzah! [Al_Abut]++
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Loqi [Al_Abut] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (49 in all channels)
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gregorlove.com edited /HTTP_Archive (+27) "link dfn" (view diff)
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btrem A minute ago I submitted a bookmark to IndieNews, but it appears to have sort of failed. In the main #indieweb channel the link shows up fine. But on https://news.indieweb.org/en the post title is rendered in plain text, not as a link. Probably a combination of user error and a bug.
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btrem I should probably post in #dev for the user error part. But I'd think that the submission should have been rejected if there was something missing from my webmention post.
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aaronpk it's because your post has both name and content that are the same
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aaronpk so it thinks it's a "note" post and shows it as plain text
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btrem Ah. Not a bug. 100% user error. Yeah! Cuz that's how I roll!
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Loqi I agree
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gRegor harsh, Loqi
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btrem Oh screw you Loqi!
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aaronpk hm, but maybe actually indienews is wrong here, because your post does have u-bookmark-of
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btrem Right, that's what I was sort of thinking.
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aaronpk the note/content thing is for people submitting their *own* posts
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aaronpk so i think the bookmark property should have taken priority
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aaronpk oh but wait, I don't see a "name" here https://xray.p3k.app/parse?pretty=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbtrem.com%2F2026%2F01-bookmark-file-over-app
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aaronpk aha, there is no p-name in your markup at all
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btrem I did get a warning, but not an error, on submission: `"notices": ["No \"name\" property found on the h-entry."]`
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btrem Whoops, our messages crossed.
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btrem Well, I didn't realize I needed `p-name` on a bookmark. So user error. But why did Indienews accept the submission? Seems like maybe it shouldn't.
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aaronpk yeah, i think that should be an error for indienews
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aaronpk bookmark posts should be required to have a name. but indienews does accept submissions without a name if there is content, but it should only do that for non-bookmarks
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btrem Also strange that the link works in the irc channel, not not on the webite.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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aaronpk well IRC is special because there's no HTML
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btrem No, don't do that, Loqi. There's a problem!
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btrem aaronpk: I don't really understand that, but no matter.
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btrem I'll file an issue. Well, first, I'll try to fix my bookmark. If I add a name and resubmit, it'll change the existing entry, not create a new one, right?
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aaronpk here's an example of a note syndicated to indienews: https://snarfed.org/2026-01-08_56338 https://news.indieweb.org/en/snarfed.org/2026-01-08_56338
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aaronpk yeah if you don't change the URL it should update the existing indienews entry
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btrem Ok. I'd best do that _before_ Loqi finalizes the newsletter.
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btrem FFS. I added `p-name` to the `<a>` element. Still wrong.
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btrem Should I go to #dev to ask what the magic incantation is?
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btrem Does the p-name have to be outside of `e-content`? Now that I write this, do I need an `e-content` property for a post that is only a bookmark?
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btrem For the sake of future searches, that's correct: `p-name` cannot be inside `e-content`.
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[artlung] I added a link to the Twig template code to my indienews bookmarks to my recent bookmarks. https://gist.github.com/artlung/7d261786b330c71b101b681c6d0c4a40 btrem maybe this will be helpful to you. I can't speak to parsers or proper `e-content` or `p-name` just try to write as little code as possible and this seemed to work. I believe keeping it simple assures that the innerText is implicitly the name.
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btrem lol at "just try to write as little code as possible"
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aaronpk you can also preview the interpreted result here https://xray.p3k.app/parse?pretty=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbtrem.com%2F2026%2F01-bookmark-file-over-app
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btrem Particularly applicable to me. (Pardon the alliteration.)
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btrem aaronpk: Wouldn't have helped with the initial submission, since I didn't include `p-name` because I didn't know it was needed. And the second one was just me under the gun, trying to fix it before the deadline. In hindsight, I wish I hadn't submitted on a Friday. I'll try to avoid that in the future.
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artlung.com edited /Bandcamp (+144) ""Keeping Bandcamp Human"" (view diff)
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btrem aaronpk: ha, just poked my nose under the hood of aaronpk/IndieNews, and found ` $xray = new p3k\XRay();`. So yeah, using the preview link you suggested would be rather helpful to the end results. ;-)
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aaronpk i use that for everything :)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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gRegor btrem, from a strict mf2 parsing perspective, yes, properties can be nested. It is probably not what you want, though, unless you definitely want the post title to also show up in the content. Example: https://php.microformats.io/?id=20260116200536351
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gRegor I think I have an IndieNews issue for it to support `u-bookmark-of h-cite` to get the title from the link
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btrem gRegor: it was definitely not what I wanted because it didn't fix the Indienews submission!
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gRegor https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues/60
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btrem You do have an issue for support of `h-cite`. I just saw it when I was looking though them.
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gRegor Ah, I see the edge case here. A minimal bookmark post like https://indieweb.org/bookmark#How_to_markup will imply the `p-name` as the link text
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gRegor So the `h-cite` class isn't strictly required. However if you have any `e-*` properties like e-content, the p-name is *not* implied
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gRegor oops, not just the link text: *it will imply the p-name as the text value of the full h-entry. So as long as the contents are only the link, same effect.
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gRegor Example: https://php.microformats.io/?id=20260116201856653
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gRegor Parsers won't imply the name if there's a nested h-* or any e-* properties. Anyway, that's my little rabbit hole for today.
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btrem I ran into trouble because my default 11ty template for h-entry posts add `e-content` to the `<main>` element. And I just copied that template for my brand new bookmark content type (just created a couple of days ago), then added a link inside that `<main>` element with the `<a class=u-bookmark-of></a>`. Now fixed.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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gRegor makes sense. glad it's working!
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gRegor and it showed up in that newsletter draft! btrem++
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Loqi btrem has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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gRegor woo, 5 new user pages this week
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btrem Thanks, but I'm not super happy with how my bookmark post looks. As I said, it's brand new. I only created it to submit the bookmarked post to Indienews.
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btrem I'm not sure how something like that should look. If there's no content, just the link, maybe I should just skip the main element. That should work, I think.
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gRegor I usually prefix "Bookmarked:" before it and sometimes add a quote: https://gregorlove.com/2025/06/bookmarked-the-who-cares-era-by-dan-sinker/
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btrem For both the title and the `h1`, I went with "Bookmark of" and the title of the bookmarked post, exactly as it appeared on the site. But the main content area looks pretty lonely.
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btrem It'd be really nice to just add a link to my front matter, have 11ty retrieve the page, and parse it to get the other properties I need (e.g. title). But (a) I don't know how I'd do that (and I don't know if I have the mental energy to add that to my to-do list); and (b) if the page is not marked up with microformats, it'd be a fools errand to use
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btrem But that doesn't help with the lonely `<main>` element.
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btrem Hmm. Just realized we're in the wrong channel. :-D
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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[tantek] can we get a IndieWeb relevance check on new page https://indieweb.org/HTTP_Archive ? currently no IndieWeb relevance so I'd rather delete it and have it recreated later (after newsletter publication) with IndieWeb relevance.
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[artlung] there are a handful of links/mentions of the site as a resource: https://indieweb.org/Special:LinkSearch?target=https%3A%2F%2Fhttparchive.org&namespace= ... I'd actually prefer a warning macro that unless this gets attention in a week it'll be deleted. Give potential contributors a minute to think about it and argue their case.
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[artlung] _This relevance of this article to the indieweb concerns is uncertain. It will be subject to deletion unless relevance is added by Jan 23, 2026._
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[tantek] I'm up for a warning macro like that but not adding non-indieweb noise to the newsletter which goes out into email boxes
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[tantek] like I'd rather delete the page now, and then move the contents to /to-do or something for it to be recreated with indieweb relevance
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[artlung] How about moving it under the creator's namespace?
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[artlung] will that hide it?
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[tantek] maybe? we can try
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tantek.com moved /HTTP_Archive to /User:Www.morganwebdev.org/HTTP_Archive "move non-indieweb specific article to user space for development until it is indieweb-focused/specific/relevant, to avoid a non-indieweb article going out in the newsletter"
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[tantek] alright let's see if that works at 14:00
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[artlung] [tantek] looks great. 🤞
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gRegor Yeah, I don't think sub-pages in the User: space show up in newsletter
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[artlung] [morgan] a page you created has been moved under your user namespace. as relevant as HTTP Archive is to the web, it doesn't seem to have particular relevance to indieweb. Here's where it was moved to. https://indieweb.org/User:Www.morganwebdev.org/HTTP_Archive ~ Wikipedia it seems to me would be the first best source, it might be a good candidate to be a wikipedia redirect. I know [tantek] and [gRegorLove] have set those up for
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[artlung] web-not-particularly-indieweb terms in the past.
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[morgan] [artlung] Gotcha, thank you for the gardening!
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gRegor Oh, it definitely won't show up because new pages that get redirected don't show up. Have run into that with HWCs where the slug wasn't quite right.
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[morgan] I forgot a little that we want to keep the wiki on topic and lean. Thanks for the ✂️ and keeping it lean
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[morgan] HTTP Archive is a pretty good read sometimes I will add
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (+169) "/* redirects to Wikipedia */ +1, note the MediaWiki syntax we can use and recent example" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Planetary (+31) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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tantek.com edited /QR_codes (+420) "update dfn a bit, add friend summary, move Path note to History" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /HTTP_Archive (+52) "redirect because otherwise it shows up in the newsletter despite being deleted" (view diff)
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[tantek] well that sort worked. the renamed User: page didn't show-up but the original deleted page did 😕
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[tantek] hoping making it a redirect will filter it out of newpages
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tantek.com edited /censorship (+10) "dfn" (view diff)
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gRegor wat
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gRegor very odd it showed up even though deleted
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loqi.me created /intentionally_left_blank (+18) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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gRegor haha
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tantek.com edited /censorship (+7) "sessions subsection" (view diff)
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gRegor what is censorship
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Loqi Intentionally left blank https://indieweb.org/censorship
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gRegor :D
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-01-16.html
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[tantek] alright, all fixed, just in time (and no old lulz page edits pollution either)