#meta 2026-06-03

2026-06-03 UTC
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weaponizedtrashpanda.com created /User:Weaponizedtrashpanda.com (+839) "Created page with "<span class ="h-card"> [https://weaponizedtrashpanda.com/ CaerbannogMochi]</span> <p>My pronouns are she/they. I primarily use my website to post worldbuilding for my legacy campaign -- including short stories in the creative commons.</p> <p>You can also find me on <a href="https://www.tumblr.com/blog/caerbannogmochi">Tumblr</a>, if you use that.</p> <h6> Itches </h6> <ul> <li> Get something recorded by in-universe author Koshchei to test the readability of that typing..."" (view diff)
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weaponizedtrashpanda.com edited /User:Weaponizedtrashpanda.com (+224) (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-205) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[tantek] I've noticed a few instances in the past week of folks seemingly "spiraling" in chats, that is, primarily negative posting leaning more towards ranting rather than detached criticism, combined with multiposting, repeatedly posting in a channel without anyone else chiming in. While we have separate guidance to avoid multiposting and tech rants, I think this combination is particularly bad and may be something to call out as something that's
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[tantek] not a good/helpful/welcoming behavior in chat
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[capjamesg] Yeah. I think the community is at its best when we’re all chatting about things we enjoy, sharing things we have made and seen that others here may like, and, generally, trying to make the web better. I don’t want any of the chats to feel draining.
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[capjamesg] Also there are a lot of developers in our chats but our chats are not _exclusively_ developers. If a chat is dominated by technical talk that others don’t know how to meaningfully participate in, it makes it harder for all discussions about the indie web (i.e. culture, identity, meaning, debugging) to flourish.
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[capjamesg] (Of course #indieweb-dev is for technical chat, so of course it’s okay for all the technical talk related to our websites and the indie web to happen there!)
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[tantek] Indeed, I blogged this primarily about our efforts to move dev chats from main #indieweb to #indieweb-dev, however I think it can apply to our informal channels (cafe, random) as well too: https://tantek.com/2024/035/t1/greshams-law-developers-users-jargon
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[tantek] Personally I'd really prefer to make our chats in general more welcoming to folks in general rather than be developer dominated (again with the exceptions of #indieweb-dev for that purpose, and perhaps also related #microformats which is almost always even more technical about parsers and details of markup issues). I'd like to ask the WordPress folks here how the #indieweb-wordpress channel is going with that balance and similarly
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[tantek] #indieweb-known
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tre.praze.net deleted /User:Tre.praze.net "Author request: While I do maintain my own not-for-profit website, I don't think I wish to be considered part of the IndieWeb community."
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[tantek] not enough responses to the Google forms that were posted? tbh that struck me a bit odd, to show up and then immediately the first thing someone does is treat the community/chat as their personal focus group. that's not a great way to enter a new community frankly (immediately demanding labor for your thing). https://chat.indieweb.org/2026-05-19#t1779203223540800 and https://chat.indieweb.org/2026-05-27#t1779896723110300
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[morgan] Ive been a little guilty of off topic ranting or dev chat in places before but also its hard to articulate but basically I think the bridging and lack of threading feature really compounds the feeling of going into a channel and seeing multi topics or chaos at times? I mean we are all basically refugees here from online chaos so it seems a hard balance. Just my 2c
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[morgan] Like some people are seeing this line by line in IRC, Discord, Slack, web chat, its already a challenge to calibrate experiences for people this kinda makes it a little more difficult. Just observing
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[morgan] Gentle nudges, a little permissiveness in the off topic random/cafe seems what Id do generally, I mean I admit I really value this place as a somewhat refuge like chat place after escaping so much other online stuff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[morgan] Also, I think a while ago I was happy that gRegor made some improvements to the web chat intro message, basically I remember joining and seeing a blankness in the chat, and it sounds kinda neurospicy but basically it was like my introduction was to a blank slate and I didnt realize theres like a sort of core-ish group of regular participants and then some people that dip in who are new. Always a balance to work on, I think everyone that
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[morgan] organizes this place is doing well under some constraints and challenges
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gRegor The blankness also depends how close to midnight UTC when you join, since it's showing the current day
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gRegor presuming you mean chat.indieweb.org
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gRegor I'm not remembering recent changes though
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[morgan] My memory is failing me. TLDR I support the work thats been done, we can always think of ways to orient the chat more and form a more perfect union sort of thing
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[artlung] I am not a refugee. That word implies desperation and deprivation and I participate by choice. I try to keep my characterizations of this space limited to my own experience. My wish is for others to do the same. Use “I” and “I feel” and “I think” in feedback rather than speaking for more than yourself.
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jamesg.blog edited /days_since_last_domain_purchase_at_HWC (+46) "reset clock" (view diff)
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[morgan] Ok, I withdraw that comment, Ill reframe it that theres a lot of stuff people dont like thats on the web we are choosing to participate less in or not at all, its a better place
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[artlung] “People don't like” how about “I don't like”
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[morgan] My experience is somewhat defined by desperation, not extreme, just like the web got enshittified real bad and I was deep in it
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[artlung] “We are choosing” how about “I am choosing”
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[artlung] I'm challenging you here [morgan], to communicate with more discretion. I hope you take it in the right spirit.
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[morgan] I am, I just feel like my words are being taken a little more formally over text communication than how I really intend. Sorry for using the royal We
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[morgan] Theres just a LOT of discussion about how we hate X dot com, bots, silos, stuff like that. Every group has some balance of things it emphasizes its against or for
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[morgan] sorry I did it again
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[morgan] Ill stop now, I mean all in good faith
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[morgan] Anyways, I really, really just meant to say that threading in Slack would help the chaos, if that was the one form we are using, but the bridging is awesome and accomplishes a lot
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[artlung] I appreciate you taking in the feedback. Changing communication habits is NOT easy for me, it has taken years for me to learn to be more cautious about what I say. But I sincerely believe it will be better for your to be better understood to engage with the suggestions I made above.
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[morgan] Taken in good faith Joe, and appreciated. Ill write a little more thoughtfully on my own website about my own perspective as myself how I do feel a degree of desperation being online a lot as a remote worker web dev for 10 years and how everything has been going for a while. This place does feel relatively like a refuge, in a sort of like neutral sense of the word here. It is a choice, but its not without influences.
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[morgan] Anyways, Im always here to follow the rules and take a nudge in whatever direction people think best. Always for sure 🙂.
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[artlung] I don't have anything to add, thanks for listening and sharing this space. And thanks others for reading (if you did, haha!). If not, carry on. I know that walls of text do not invite a close read. I know folks “nope out” when they see more than a sentence or two.
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[artlung] (Folks have told me so.)
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[morgan] Thats kind of a weird social move, people have told me things about you too, how does that feel?
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[morgan] (they were all good really, just its weird to allude to people who arent participating)
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[morgan] Maybe its time for me to nope out, have a good one
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[tantek] I would agree with [artlung], the indieweb chat really is not (should not be considered?) a "refuge". not the intent at all, and I think that may be a source of disconnect.
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gRegor I read that as "folks have told me so (about my own longer posts)"
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gRegor not a "people have told me things about *you*"
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[tantek] yeah agreed
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[artlung] As always, communicating unambiguously is difficult (for me in this case, but I certainly see others struggle with this). I meant no finger pointing.
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[tantek] also we had a discussion about walls of text a while ago and enough congealed with enough folks here that we wrote it up: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Monologuing_or_multi-posting — I see now that it doesn't mention "wall(s) of text" so perhaps that needs to be added to be more explicit and findable
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tantek.com edited /discuss (+182) "/* Monologuing or multi-posting */ note "wall of text" effect, summary CTA to blog instead of text-dump in chat" (view diff)
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[tantek] updated to explicitly mention the "wall of text" problem as well as a short and hopefully clearly discoverable CTA to blog instead of text-dumping in chat
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[tantek] please review folks ^. feedback / suggestions for improvement welcome!
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[tantek] [artlung] (when you're available) and gRegor in particular, and [Sophia_wood] too when you have a moment. Thanks in advance!
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gRegor Update reads fine to me, though I have mixed feelings about it. Not strong ones and not fully fleshed out, just thinking about different communication styles.
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gRegor Also the chat platform plays into it a bit. I'm on some Discords where longer walls of text are common and not an issue, though they do tend to be closer-knit communities, so it makes sense. I wonder if a random or cafe channel implies/encourages that more.
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[tantek] I have seen that behavior in some Discords as well, and tbh I find them impossible to follow or get any kind of useful actual conversation going (maybe sometimes with Discord-specific threads)
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[tantek] that Discord long walls of text / rapid posting default does not work well with a "everything flattened into a single chat" default
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[tantek] also I find such Discords more about "emo posting / vibing" than focused, more rational, point / counterpoint types of discussions
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[tantek] agreed about different communication styles. I think the hard part is as the community grows (more people in a channel), fewer and fewer communication styles will "just work" with that many people, and we may have to ask folks with "chattier" styles to adapt rather than asking the growing community to adapt to them
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gRegor Discords vary widely, I think that's more about the specific communities you may be in than the platform.
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gRegor Also my emo kid at heart objects ;) jk
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[tantek] haha ❤️
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[tantek] agreed Discords vary widely.
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aaronpk ha yeah i do not spend time in discords like that, the ones i am in are much closer to chat here
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tabitha.computer created /User:Tabitha.computer (+67) "creating page" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk same. even a particular Discord that replaced a particular Slack that we were both on, the Discord default of 'lots of colorful disconnected text scrolling by wheeeeeee' is enough of a attention-span / distraction turn-off for me that I've largely noped out of that
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weaponizedtrashpanda.com edited /User:Weaponizedtrashpanda.com (+101) (view diff)
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[tantek] that is an amazing domain name
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gRegor indeed!
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jamesg.blog edited /link_repair (+250) "create brainstorming section" (view diff)
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[capjamesg] [tantek] I created a brainstorming section first exploring when you might not want to repair a link.
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[capjamesg] It may also be worth documenting the case of websites where the author is transitioning/has transitioned and now has a different presence on the web.
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[Sophia_wood] [tantek] words look good to me.
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[tantek] good start [capjamesg]! and thank you [Sophia_wood] 🙏
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+545) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[capjamesg] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2026/06/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-hrBrCZzQXpoX
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iwc-archive-bot Created https://indieweb.org/events/2026-06-03-hwc-europe. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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jamesg.blog created /events/2026-06-03-hwc-europe (+9789) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2026-06-03-hwc-europe (+18) "clean up formatting, add headings" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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www.morganwebdev.org edited /User:Www.morganwebdev.org (+374) "Updated profile" (view diff)