#meta 2026-06-12

2026-06-12 UTC
jjuran, ZodiacalComet_ and fractalkitty joined the channel
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[sockblaster] > [capjamesg]
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[sockblaster] > [sockblaster] IIRC https://github.com/qaisjp/go-discord-irc is the bridge we use for Discord <> ~~Slack~~ IRC
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[sockblaster] > [capjamesg]
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[sockblaster] Thanks! I’ll take a look at your architecture and see if that can help. The way it converts Discord posts to plain text could save me some time and anguish
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[sockblaster] > I really like your idea of having a Discord <> email bridge.
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[sockblaster] Does this group have folks who prefer email/avoid email? It could potentially be another way to stay connected. I’m allergic to email and get such fomo. My specific project is focused on threads, but I suspect there’s more prior work out there for channels.
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aaronpk what is email?
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Loqi Email is a decentralized, non-web messaging transport, with user interfaces that enable a wide range of message formats and styles, and commonly used for account recovery by web sites and applications https://indieweb.org/email
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arkirus.fun edited /User:Arkirus.fun (-55) (view diff)
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[tantek] sockblaster, you are among friends. many of us are allergic to email too, especially in a community setting. there is no indieweb mailing list, never has been.
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osteophage.neocities.org edited /accessibility () "(-7189) moved blogposts and resources up out of See Also" (view diff)
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osteophage.neocities.org edited /accessibility_statement (+83) "moving Code 4 Lib page here from Accessibility page" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tantek] [fluffy] I did find this thread, and it may be worth commenting on it to invite people here (to chat) https://www.reddit.com/r/indieweb/comments/1tl53x1/meta_hey_mods_maybe_its_time_for_stricter_the/ cc: aaronpk
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[tantek] assuming we have the capacity to handle onboarding a bunch of eager redditers 😄
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[fluffy] Yeah hmm I have mixed feelings about that, reddit is one of those sites where I put up with it because there’s enough good on it still that I’m not quite willing to leave it entirely 😛
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[fluffy] I think the issue here is that there are kind of two things called “Indie Web” at this point and while they’re aligned, some of the facets are a bit at odds with each other
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[tantek] only two? 😉
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[fluffy] okay, at least two 😛
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[tantek] I mean I always thought Google and Wikipedia were the authority on what is a thing
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[fluffy] I feel like the current surge of interest in “indie web” is in the same way that there’s an interest in, say, “indie musicians,” and most people don’t care to come up with a reasonable definition of what that means.
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[tantek] do redditers not know to look things up on the web? like web search or wikipedia?
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[fluffy] I think most people are just passively consuming YouTube and such and are fundamentally incurious
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[tantek] maybe there's nothing to be done then. if reddit is for passive uncurious consumers of YouTube who don't bother to search the web or use wikipedia, maybe we're not missing much?
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[fluffy] so they hear about “the indie web” from one of those videos that have been going around and then think, “oh cool, I could make a Neocities page” and never have any reason to look into any of the tech stuff
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[tantek] how do they go from "YouTube" to "reddit" though?
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[fluffy] but also I kind of feel like the tech stuff is a “yes, and” for indie sites. Like it’s really cool to me that people are trying to build their own personal homepages again.
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[tantek] this is not about "the tech stuff"
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[tantek] this is a failure to go to google and type in "indie web" and see what it says
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[fluffy] Given how much mutual backfeeding there is between YouTube and Reddit algorithms I kind of feel like the Venn diagram is a circle.
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[tantek] do we need to syndicate more videos to YouTube?
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[fluffy] Like whenever I look at YouTube I’m inundated with vlogs that are just people reading Reddit posts, and then on Reddit people post those same videos. It’s an ouroborus.
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[tantek] whoa had no idea that was a phenom!
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[fluffy] I think producing some videos about things would be beneficial, yeah
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[fluffy] but I’m not sure how worthwhile it would be
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[fluffy] like, tangentially related but sometimes I talk about Bandcrash (my music encoding/distribution thing that’s very indieweb-oriented) and then Reddit folks ask me if there’s a youtube tutorial to use it, and I’m like, “no, but I want the documentation to be as good as possible so people don’t need a tutorial, give it a try and let me know if you run into issues” and then either they’ll immediately lose interest (or think I’m
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[fluffy] or they just have this abject *helplessness* to the things they get confused by
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[tantek] right, if folks are self-selecting, like uncurious -> Reddit; curious folks -> web search / wikipedia / community
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[tantek] would they accept an IG reel instead? 😂
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[fluffy] https://www.reddit.com/r/kunaki/comments/1sx7zp5/comment/ojqbrft/ for an example of the phenomenon in action
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[fluffy] like I really do not understand why this person didn’t understand that in order to create CD authoring files you have to check the “CD” box on the UI. so I added some screenshots to the docs which I felt would be seen as incredibly patronizing but apparently they were helpful for this person
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[tantek] amazing. this is like a strange subculture
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[fluffy] and I mean I’m probably just only noticing this person because it stands out to me, but I look at the state of the Internet and how people are using youtube as their only learning resources, and how many programming things are now in the form of a talking head with an Ubuntu prompt on WSL
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[fluffy] Or then there’s posts like https://www.reddit.com/r/cprogramming/comments/1jaj32g/offline_c_compiler/
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[tantek] [fluffy] I'm more forgiving of that because I expect the person has only use "network computers" or "web apps" to do everything so far
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[fluffy] Sure, and I mean, it’s just the state of things right now
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[tantek] like maybe a student?
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[tantek] as in, it's not fair to judge inexperience
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[fluffy] Right and I mean I’m not criticizing the person for this, but the ecosystem in which they’ve learned
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[tantek] yeah criticizing the state of learning is real
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[fluffy] It’s a hard mindset for me to understand because I wasn’t brought up in it.
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[fluffy] One of my nieces really wants to learn programing but her mom (my sister) will only give her a Chromebook for fear of her breaking a laptop
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[fluffy] There’s just like… a big cultural shift that’s made the means in which people learn technology very difficult, and also I feel like people don’t bother with a web search anymore because AI slop has taken over all the search results.
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[fluffy] And culturally I think a lot of people have forgotten *how* to learn, or never learned it in the first place.
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[tantek] oh wow r/indieweb is the SECOND result in Google for "indie web"
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[tantek] ok now this is making more sense
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[fluffy] on duckduckgo the blurb is the wiki article, first and third results are http://indieweb.org pages, and second result is http://theindieweb.com which is much more aligned with the YouTube cultural notion of indieweb.
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[tantek] hilarious
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[fluffy] I get the same first two results as you on google,a nd the third result is https://www.tumblr.com/kafus/700690913249394688/beginners-guide-to-the-indie-web which is also very much the youtube/neocities/etc. version of “indie web”
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[fluffy] so like there’s this big cultural divide where for a LOT of people, the idea of “indie web” is “make ugly webpages that look like late 90s/early 00s instead of corporate,” like it’s about the aesthetic, not the technology or interop. And I kind of feel like it’s a good thing that people are just having fun making websites that speak to them without worrying about the technical details.
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[tantek] we have pages about the aesthetic!
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[fluffy] But it still represents a bit of a culture clash.
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[tantek] nah, we're inclusive of folks who are into the aesthetic and don't care about protocols
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[tantek] as long as they do it on their personal site, all good
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[fluffy] right
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[tantek] what are the 90s?
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Loqi The 1990s was a decade that saw the invention and growth of the web, dominated by independent websites, as well as nascent silos like Geocities, with a particular brightly colored and often translucent design aesthetic that would come to define the era along with under construction graphics, dancing animals, site counters, ornate backgrounds, and guest books https://indieweb.org/90s
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[tantek] what are the 2000s
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Loqi The 2000s was a decade that began with the dotcom bust and saw the rapid growth of blogs, blog search engines like Technorati, standards-based web development, the invention (like Atom) and maturation (like RSS 2.0) of modern feed file formats, the inventions of Pingback, microformats, and the emergence of social media silos, and in the latter half web-capable smartphones, all accompanied with a shift to silver or shiny aesthetic https://indieweb.org/2000s
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[tantek] what are the 80s?
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Loqi The 1980s was a decade when several IndieWeb community members were born and when a particularly colorful aesthetic was popularized that has subsequently seen adoption in nostalgia contexts, like the Homebrew Website Club logo https://indieweb.org/80s
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[tantek] plenty of retro-aesthetics to choose from 😄
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[fluffy] like to me the most important thing is that people are making sites, yeah. But I do wish there were more attention given to the interop stuff. RSS/Atom, webmention, etc. are all super powerful things that are super unknown by the vast majority of Internet users, and it’s a shame.
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[fluffy] well I guess i should add myself to the 1970s page so Joe Crawford doesn’t feel so lonely
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[tantek] I think that's ok to start with for most folks. If all they do is find a place to be more self-expressive on the web, that's great! that alone helps call into question default-silo-culture
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] what are the 70s?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "70s" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "70s is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[fluffy] it’s 1970s
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tantek.com created /70s (+19) "r" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /1970s (+40) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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[tantek] what were the 70s?
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Loqi The 1970s was a decade when terminal green (or otherwise 1-bit) displays were popular, inspiring some IndieWeb blog themes, and when a few folks in the IndieWeb community were born https://indieweb.org/70s
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[tantek] there we go
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[tantek] when I start my cassette futurism page on Wikipedia, I'll link to it from /70s
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[fluffy] nice
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[fluffy] I’m just old enough to remember seeing 8 tracks for sale in stores and asking my parents why we didn’t have any.
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[artlung] Fluffy++ Far out!
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Loqi Fluffy has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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[fluffy] I turn 48 in 3 days, incidentally
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[artlung] Well happy birthday minus 3!
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[tantek] 2.5 days until Happy Birthday [fluffy]!! 🥳 🎉 🎂
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2026-06-14 4:30pm UTC (#7268)
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[fluffy] haha, thanks
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egoexpress [tantek]: Not yet, its just in my private archive for now
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tantek.com edited /1970s (+17) "design heading" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /1970s (+2) "sp" (view diff)
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[capjamesg] What is a zine?
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Loqi A zine is a paper self-publication, often about non-mainstream topics, sometimes described as the precursor of personal blogs and IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/zine
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[capjamesg] zine << [https://jointhefediverse.net/zine?lang=en-us Join the Fediverse zine]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://jointhefediverse.net/zine?lang=en-us Join the Fediverse zine]" to the "See Also" section of /zine https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=111519&oldid=111065
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thudfactor.com created /User:Thudfactor.com (+432) "Created page with "<div class="p-summary"> {{Infobox person |name = John Williams |url = https://thudfactor.com/ |photo_url = https://thudfactor.com/_astro/avatar.BV7_vQlQ_Z23npD0.webp |pronouns = he/him |summary = John is a front-end web developer and agilist (not a composer) |state = Virginia |country = USA |elsewhere = https://www.filmhydra.com, {{mastodon-link| instance = hachyderm.io | username = thudfactor }} |chatname = thudfactor }} </div>"" (view diff)
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thamara.co.uk edited /User:Thamara.co.uk (+294) "Astro migration update" (view diff)
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thudfactor.com created /Template:thudfactor (+164) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|1=https://thudfactor.com/_astro/avatar.BV7_vQlQ_Z23npD0.webp}} [[User:Thudfactor.com|Thudfactor]]</span>"" (view diff)
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thudfactor.com edited /User:Thudfactor.com (+9) (view diff)
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thudfactor.com edited /1970s (+37) "Adding myself (and I guess testing the sparkline)" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
[social], [Sophia_wood], [aciccarello] and [artlung] joined the channel
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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gregorlove.com created /@-mention (+19) "r" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
Guest6_ joined the channel
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gRegor what is at-mention
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Loqi @user is a well-established internet convention for referring to someone using their online identity in a particular context, first used purely as static punctuation like in Flickr comments (and likely before), then first implemented in Twitter posts as a hyperlink to the user’s profile page, adopted by social media silos, notably Instagram, and adopted by users in print, street art, and other media like TV broadcasts as a universal way to find and follow them, for a while on Twitter and more recently on Instagram https://indieweb.org/at-mention
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gRegor what is @mention
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Loqi @user is a well-established internet convention for referring to someone using their online identity in a particular context, first used purely as static punctuation like in Flickr comments (and likely before), then first implemented in Twitter posts as a hyperlink to the user’s profile page, adopted by social media silos, notably Instagram, and adopted by users in print, street art, and other media like TV broadcasts as a universal way to find and follow them, for a while on Twitter and more recently on Instagram https://indieweb.org/@-mention
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gRegor what is @domain
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Loqi A personal domain is a domain name (or web address) that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indieweb.org/domain
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gRegor huh
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gRegor No `@mention` page or redirect, but it finds the `@-mention` page
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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gRegor finds the redirect, not page
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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[tantek] gRegor++ for the @-gardening :shovel:
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Loqi gRegor has 45 karma in this channel over the last year (126 in all channels)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
Kevin1 joined the channel
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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tantek.com edited /2026/Nuremberg (+84) "add indieweb event for NUEDIGITAL" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2023/NUR (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2026/Nuremberg/Planning (+1290) "stub from Planning" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is 2026/Nuremberg/Planning
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Loqi 🏰 2026 Nuremberg planning is for organizing IndieWebCamp Nuremberg 2026; this page is an archive of the initial planning Nuremberg from the Planning page https://indieweb.org/2026/Nuremberg/Planning
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2026-06-12.html
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-26) "/* Nuremberg */ link to 2026 Planning page for current planning, start updating this general one for 2027" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+69) "move DUS and NUR planning to 2027" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2026/Nuremberg/Planning (+187) "copy edit, cat, see also similar to 2023" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /@mention (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /@user (+1) "." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /@user (+462) "/* Silo Support */ sort and note which do not support or redirect /@user paths, add Threads, Facebook" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /@user (+47) "AKA @mention" (view diff)