#meta 2025-02-21

2025-02-21 UTC
[benji], aelaraji, [tw2113] and CRISPR joined the channel
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tantek] Fractalkitty++ made it I to the newsletter!
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Loqi Fractalkitty has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[tantek] into* the
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[tantek] What is OPDS
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Loqi OPDS is Open Publication Distribution System, an RDF-based standard for an open and decentralized distribution for any digital media https://indieweb.org/OPDS
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[tantek] ^ dfn has no indieweb relevance, no indieweb examples, and is also inconsistent with what Wikipedia says: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Publication_Distribution_System
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[tantek] !tell sebbu do you support OPDS on your personal site? If not I plan to delete the /OPDS page because it lacks indieeeb relevance and provides negative value (inaccuracy) compared to the Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Publication_Distribution_System
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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capjamesg[d] What is Scotland?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Scotland" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Scotland is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg[d] Scotland is home of the monthly, in-person [[Edinburgh]] Homebrew Website Club.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Scotland (+106) "prompted by capjamesg[d] and dfn added by capjamesg[d]" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] Scotland << [[Edinburgh]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Edinburgh]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Scotland https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=100083&oldid=100082
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loqi.me edited /Scotland (+33) "capjamesg[d] added "[[Edinburgh]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] What is the UK?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/UK
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capjamesg[d] UK << Scotland
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Scotland]]" to the "See Also" section of /UK https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=100084&oldid=100076
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jamesg.blog edited /UK (+390) "Add Edinburgh and HWC events" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] Edinburgh << [[Scotland]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Scotland]]" to the "See Also" section of /Edinburgh https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=100086&oldid=98151
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jamesg.blog edited /Edinburgh (+143) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /wiki-projects (+715) "add {{capjamesg}}'s github-backed wiki" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I documented my GitHub workflow on https://indieweb.org/wiki-projects
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capjamesg[d] [edit] [tantek] I documented my GitHub workflow on https://indieweb.org/wiki-projects
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capjamesg[d] What is a table of contents?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "table of contents" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "table of contents is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg[d] What is a TOC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TOC" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "TOC is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg[d] A table of contents is an outline of a HTML document that usually links to specific sections and sub-sections.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /table_of_contents (+135) "prompted by capjamesg[d] and dfn added by capjamesg[d]" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] TOC is /table_of_contents
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /TOC (+30) "prompted by capjamesg[d] and redirect added by capjamesg[d]" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:toc cjg.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:toc_cjg.png"
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jamesg.blog edited /table_of_contents (+167) "add {{capjamesg}} example" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /table_of_contents (+146) "add more information about implementation" (view diff)
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doesnm User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt is /User:Doesnm.cc
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capjamesg[d] You need to say "what is _thing_" before you can use the redirect tool.
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capjamesg[d] This prevents people accidentally redirecting things 😄
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doesnm what is User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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doesnm User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt is /User:Doesnm.cc
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /User:Doesnm.p.psf.lt (+27) "prompted by doesnm and redirect added by doesnm" (view diff)
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doesnm capjamesg[d]++
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Loqi capjamesg[d] has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (220 in all channels)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (+1) "/* James (capjamesg) */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (-83) "/* IndieWeb Search */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog () "(-1768) /* My Website */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (-391) "/* James (capjamesg) */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (-208) "reorganise content" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (-128) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (+207) "/* My Website */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (-2) "/* My Website */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /User:Jamesg.blog (+228) "/* Active IndieWeb community projects */" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] what is User:Cali.moe?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User%3ACali.moe
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capjamesg[d] User:Cali.moe is /User:Jamesg.blog_hwc-archiver
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capjamesg[d] /User:Cali.moe is /User:Jamesg.blog_hwc-archiver
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jamesg.blog hwc-archiver edited /User:Cali.moe (+15) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog hwc-archiver created /User:Jamesg.blog_hwc-archiver (+31) "Created page with "IndieWeb Etherpad archiver bot."" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog hwc-archiver created /events/event-test (+311) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog deleted /events/event-test "created as a test page"
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jamesg.blog edited /Cali (+26) (view diff)
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doesnm hm, cali.moe domain is not exists. Is it manually created?
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capjamesg[d] I used to have a website on that domain but I don't anymore.
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capjamesg[d] I am moving the bot to use a new wiki account.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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tantek.com deleted /OPDS "No indieweb relevance or examples, and content was inaccurate compared to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Publication_Distribution_System. OPDS is based on Atom, not RDF. RDF advocacy, especially when trivially factually disproven is unwelcome here."
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[tantek] RDF-- for good measure. Seriously if you are here to advocate for RDF, you're very likely in the wrong place. IndieWeb is user-centric, which is about as far from RDF as you can get.
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Loqi RDF has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-2 in all channels)
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[tantek] For the record, I did dig into the refs on the Wikipedia page, the current version, OPDS Catalog 1.2, has ZERO mentions of RDF. The draft version, OPDS Catalog 2.0, has ONE mention of RDF, and it merely says "metadata are expressed in JSON but an RDF graph can be extracted using a JSON-LD context". "RDF graph can be extracted" != "RDF-based" which was in the erroneous dfn on the indieweb wikii page stub. Also, other than that clause, there
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[tantek] is ZERO other mentions of "JSON-LD" or "@context" in the rest of that draft spec.
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[tantek] Pretty much any markup or JSON "can be extracted" as a (RDF) graph with the addition of a bunch of other mumbo jumbo (@context, profile, etc.), so such a statement is also an empty statement. It doesn't add any new information.
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[tantek] capjamesg[d]++ for documenting https://indieweb.org/wiki-projects#GitHub-backed_wiki! Beautiful!
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Loqi capjamesg[d] has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (218 in all channels)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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tantek.com edited /wiki-projects (+850) "braindump a Why section for wiki projects" (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell capjamesg[d] for your review: https://indieweb.org/wiki-projects#Why — see if that resonates with you as someone who built their own wiki page workflow.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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[tantek] Scotland << UK
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Loqi ok, I added "[[UK]]" to the "See Also" section of /Scotland https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=100111&oldid=100083
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tantek.com edited /UK (+303) "dfn hosts currently HWCs, Regular Events, IndieWebCamps, Cities, clean up SA" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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gRegor I don't know if we captured it somewhere, but I do like the idea of a list of Wikipedia links that Loqi can reply to "what is" about, like that /OPDS page. Would help point people in the right direction
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[tantek] we did capture it somewhere
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gRegor what is jargon
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Loqi jargon is a specific unobvious word, concept, or technology (like Webmention), re-use of a word to mean something other than its common meaning (like feed), or sometimes re-using a word as an acronym (like POSSE), or any abbreviation that requires developer knowledge or skills https://indieweb.org/jargon
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tantek.com edited /wikifying () "(-10992) add back paren from prev edit, and Undo revision [[Special:Diff/98814|98814]] by [[Special:Contributions/Loqi.me|Loqi.me]] ([[User talk:Loqi.me|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+191) "manually re-add the attempted addition of how to embed iframes of video, with local wiki link instead of edit-state wiki URL" (view diff)
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[tantek] oh hey redirects might work with the Wikipedia: syntax
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[tantek] let's try something
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tantek.com created /OPDS (+60) "redirect to Wikipedia article which is more accurate" (view diff)
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[tantek] what is OPDS
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/OPDS
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jamesg.blog edited /wiki-projects (+5) "clarify that the description is about wiki pages" (view diff)
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[tantek] good enough for now.
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I made a minor edit ^
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capjamesg[d] Clarifying "wiki pages" feels important because not all pages on websites fall under the category of "usually providing a browsable revision history".
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[tantek] yeah that's reasonable
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capjamesg[d] The description reads well!
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[tantek] and the "why?" section overall?
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capjamesg[d] Looks good.
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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capjamesg[d] Have you seen https://jamesg.blog/create ?
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[tantek] !tell aaronpk can we possible get Loqi to follow "what is" redirects to Wikipedia as well? E.g. try "what is OPDS"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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capjamesg[d] It's not quite a wiki project but is in the category of providing UIs over page generation that we spoke about.
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capjamesg[d] The page generates a markdown file that I can then commit via GitHub.
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[tantek] gRegor, re: "list of Wikipedia links that Loqi can reply to "what is" about" WDYT about creating redirects for those pages to the Wikipedia equivalents? LIke what I did with /OPDS
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[tantek] capjamesg[d], feels quite close
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gRegor [tantek], seems like a reasonable no-code fix, nice
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+205) "2/12 and 2/19 HWCs" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /XFN (+532) "move TomMorris example to Past Examples, CTA to add yourself for other examples (besides rel-me), note Brainstorming / following for blogrolls" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegor try it next time you run into an example like that (maybe with some redlinks on the /jargon page?) and see how it feels. If it feels right, then we can add it as official guidance to /wikifying
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[aciccarello] what is OPDS?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/OPDS
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[aciccarello] Too bad Loqi doesn't read anything out from the redirect
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[aciccarello] Might be a naive solution, but what if loqi responded like "No IndieWeb page for OPDS. You might want to see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPDS" that wouldn't require setting up a lot of redirects and would be a good disincentive to creating pages that don't have indieweb relevance.
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+318) "finish Loqi addition" (view diff)
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[tantek] aciccarello, indeed I asked aaronpk above if he could look into having Loqi follow the redirect to Wikipedia and grab the dfn from the first sentence there
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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[tantek] ^ we got room for one more "most edited" wiki page. which will it be? who has a preference and wants to help make it happen?
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+118) "Brainstorming / redirects to Wikipedia" (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell gRegor ok added as an official brainstorm with call for thoughts/opinions: https://indieweb.org/wikifying#redirects_to_Wikipedia
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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www.ciccarello.me edited /recipe (+47) "Move Mr. Lovenstein comic" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /table_of_contents (+1) "an HTML" (view diff)
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[tantek] Anyone around to garden /microcast ? I just got word that most of the links on it are broken 😬
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aaronpk aw
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Loqi aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 1 hour, 42 minutes ago: can we possible get Loqi to follow "what is" redirects to Wikipedia as well? E.g. try "what is OPDS"
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aaronpk what is OPDS
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/OPDS
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aaronpk huh I didn't know we could create redirects to wikipedia
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[tantek] I discovered that it works with that example!
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aaronpk well the way the wiki defs work is loqi is actually reading the microformats of the page, so that won't work with wikipedia
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[tantek] I've been adding "local" [[ ]] style wiki links to See Also sections to Wikipedia equivalents for articles for a while now and figured hey let's try that syntax in another spot and presto it worked
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aaronpk but i could add a fallback to using the mediawiki api to find the page content and pull the first sentence. I think it actually used to do that but we had better results going with the microformats route because then we can explicitly choose what text to include in the dfn
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[tantek] .mw-body-content p:first-child /* seems to retrieve the proper element, then take innertext and grab first sentence
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[tantek] */
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[tantek] but yes, mediawiki API is likely more dependable across theme updates/changes
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2025-02-21.html