#microformats 2025-05-29
2025-05-29 UTC
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trwnh this is the part that i'm unsure about -- aren't multiple rel values supposed to apply their semantics independently? what does "code" or "root" mean on its own? > I expect any user visible/clickable in-page links with rel=repository to have at least one other value, e.g. at most one of "code", "directory", or "root"
# trwnh that seems confusing and i'm not entirely sure why -- my intuition is strongly telling me that something like rel="alternate stylesheet" should be equivalent to rel=alternate + rel=stylesheet. i think it has to do with space-delimited values?
# trwnh i can tell that it isn't equivalent but that *bothers* me
# trwnh i don't know enough to say why though
# trwnh like "alternate" should be in relation to the current resource/document, not as a modifier for "stylesheet". i don't have a problem with rel+type because that feels fine, they're separate parameters intended to be interpreted together
# trwnh i guess discriminating on title= is also something that sometimes gets used for this? the problem is that title= is freeform arbitrary input that doesn't really have the expectation of being parsed for token usage
# trwnh that might be justified, yeah
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# trwnh https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Attributes/rel/alternate_stylesheet seems to indicate that "alternate stylesheet" might have issues in browsers other than firefox?
# trwnh i'm speaking more in a logical sense though, i would get tripped up if i saw something rel=alternate that wasn't actually an "alternate", it was a "stylesheet that shouldn't be applied by default"
# trwnh this screams historical reasons to me though
# trwnh yeah it's exclusively a firefox thing, no other browsers support "alternate stylesheet" like this
# trwnh looks like chrome supported it but then chrome 48 removed it
# trwnh the MDN page calls out that you should use prefers-color-scheme and prefers-contrast where possible
# trwnh that doesn't seem to fully cover the use cases enabled by firefox's functionality, but it is admittedly quite niche in the first place
# trwnh iirc prefers-color-scheme is "light" or "dark" only
# trwnh in any case, i would prefer link relations that are self-sufficient and composable rather than having weird dependencies on other rel values
# trwnh it makes parsing and behavioral logic way easier
# trwnh yeah to be clear repository-code repository-directory repository-root seem fine to me
# trwnh sorry, by composable i meant that you can use multiple rel values for the same href/target but the rel values should continue to apply independently
# trwnh i am not sure i fully grasp the use of "code" alone as opposed to "repository-code"
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[tantek] as noted, see the UX in these examples https://chat.indieweb.org/microformats/2025-05-26/1748227008455200
# trwnh i would probably publish rel=repository-code for e.g. an "edit this page" link on the mastodon documentation that links back to github.com/mastodon/documentation/edit/... and similar use cases. this is what i was previously considering rel=edit for
# trwnh for clarity i'm trying to understand what rel=repository means, what rel=code means, separately
# trwnh i can understand them together but not when they are "decomposed"
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# trwnh sadly i think no, the developer attention was swept up with quote posts for the past several months
# trwnh i do hope that at some point there is a profile for a subset of HTML, but this might take a long time
# trwnh a few hours ago there was a discussion of rel=tag being used in mastodon to suppress link previews, but also class=hashtag i think does the same thing. things like this are scattered through the mastodon html parser and akkoma publishes class=quote-inline on their placeholders so mastodon will strip that i think
# trwnh i'd like to see standard markup being used but the ad-hoc continues to be used almost purely because of existing install base aka legacy reasons
# trwnh the meta name=fediverse:creator thing is unique in that i don't know why it was proposed like that, but it does mirror twitter:creator
# trwnh (for some reason the mastodon team pushed back on that assertion though?)
# trwnh it's not a good design approach but unfortunately it is the prevailing one. proprietary or not, the methodology of fediverse development seems to be driven significantly by mirroring what came before
# trwnh the problem is that applications will publish things with... little regard for whether it is a good idea or not? it ends up being a temporary fix that develops into tech debt and somehow ossifies into an ad hoc standard
# trwnh well "before" also has a proximity component i suppose
# trwnh my understanding is that fediverse:creator was proposed by someone who used to work for twitter
# trwnh the tragedy here is that what gets proposed and discussed in issues is often swept aside by what catches the whims or interests or attention of the dev team
# trwnh i'm not sure what particularly leads to this kind of thing happening, but limited attention + shortcuts to bypass the noisy public process...
# trwnh it's a small team and it's a big community, and there isn't really a proper governance model yet (although ostensibly this has been in the works for some years now?)
# trwnh it's still a big shame that we lost mf2 support in the transition from 3.5 -> 4.0 because public pages started to be handled by the js frontend which didn't support mf2 (unlike the ruby haml pages which did support mf2)
# trwnh do you mean opengraph stuff? yeah, that's probably good enough for pulling a title and description, where "title" here means the author name, and "description" here means the content of the post. i guess you could map meta property=og:title to .p-author and also map meta property=og:description to .p-content
# trwnh that wouldn't be universal though, it would only work for mastodon-generated resources
# trwnh that would be the ideal, yes xD
# trwnh i think a good deal of this stuff would probably come up in discussions of a mastodon html profile, so it's not entirely off the table
# trwnh (i think...)
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