#microformats 2011-06-30
2011-06-30 UTC
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# 
aux if anybody needs a google+ account let me know. we get people invited from a loophole while invites are off..
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# ChiefRA guys, I need a little insight from you. Question is: how can I transform into microformats the "coverage area" for Real Estate business.
# ChiefRA On international Real Estate offices, some offices can provide assistance in multiple languages: e.g. english, french, etc. and their coverage area (their area of Real Estate expertise) which usually is limited to several counties only, where they have properties for sale. For example: http://goo.gl/XhzrX this Real Estate Office is one of them.
# ChiefRA I've managed to adjust the spoken languages into microformats with the help of "value-title" subproperty of "note" (and placed the "lang" too, for browsers which do not support "value-title"), see the 1st highlighted line from here: http://pastebin.com/Vmf7Ubnh
# ChiefRA The 2nd highlighted line is the coverage area I wish also to transform it into microformats, but I wish to have a meaning for search engines, not a simple note (which however, I cannot place it in the same way, because this violates the rule which sais that the parser should look only on the first non-whitespace child of the property element: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Parsing_machine-data_value-title
# ChiefRA the 2 available checking methods - Optimus: http://goo.gl/cDLW5 it shows both note subproperties: lang AND value-title
# ChiefRA Google Rich Snippets Tools: http://goo.gl/rtLjY interprets the correct "note" subproperty, on the footer, but it doesn't list it within the main extracted rich snippet data from the page
# ChiefRA However, I wish all these to have a true meaning within microfomats. I need to implement the microformats somehow on the coverage area. How do you suggest to do it? Thank you.
# 
singpolyma I'm not sure there is anything nearly specific to what you want
# singpolyma you could use rel-tag/"category" or something like that, but that's not quite right for this case maybe
# singpolyma ofc you can use "note", but as you say that's not very semantic
# ChiefRA I've searched a lot through microformats.org website and I couldn't find anything like this.
# ChiefRA maybe we need to suggest a new subproperty for this cases?
# ChiefRA as I'm sure there are a lot of offices not only in Real Estate businesses, which speak more than 1 lang, and have a more wide coverage area
# singpolyma right. you're looking for metadata about the office itself, which is a bit out of the scope of pure hCard
# ChiefRA yeah, has to be implemented within the hlisting in my case.
# ChiefRA but ofc, the org hCard could include this as a subproperty and that will fix this issue.
# ChiefRA maybe for languages spoken within a company we could create a subproperty named let's say languages-used
# ChiefRA and for the coverage areas, as well coverage-area
# ChiefRA tantek what do you say about my proposal? does it make any sense?
# singpolyma well, actually, lanugages *does* apply to all hCards, since both persons and orgs have lanugages they speak
# ChiefRA true.
# singpolyma <dl><dt>Languages</dt> <dd><ul><li>English</li><li>French</li></ul></dd></dl> is a XOXO snippet one could use for such things
# singpolyma so, languages do sort of fit with rel-tag, but not at all with category. and having something more specific seems like it could be usefl
# singpolyma yes
# ChiefRA I've tried to cover tha languages spoken in this way:
# ChiefRA <dl class="group note">
# ChiefRA <dt class="lang"><span class="value-title" title="en,fr,de,it,es"></span>Languages: </dt>
# ChiefRA Google parser seems to accept them very well, but they are entered as "note" subproperty
# ChiefRA I agree, but I couldn't find anythine else more appropriate :)
# ChiefRA it should be a NEW subproperty.
# ChiefRA and the coverage area has the same problem.
# ChiefRA because many businesses DO HAVE a coverage area
# ChiefRA look at Google Places for example.
# 
tantek ChiefRA - go ahead and start that wiki page and list the URLs to the examples that you're talking about: http://microformats.org/wiki/languages-spoken-examples
# ChiefRA ok.
# ChiefRA I'll start doing that, but I can do that only from tomorrow on.
# ChiefRA Should I compose a small text explaining the need ?
# ChiefRA before I list the examples?
# singpolyma Facebook is giving me the option to list languages, but I don't see it displaying on the profile :P
# singpolyma oh, there it is
# ChiefRA they don't know yet how to do it
# ChiefRA probably
# singpolyma ChiefRA: the examples *are* the need :)
# singpolyma created /languages-spoken-brainstorming (+169) "create note about ISO language codes" (view diff)
# ChiefRA Oh, that;s another spinny problem lol
# ChiefRA as the "lang" tag only supports ISO639-1 2char codes.
# ChiefRA anyway I'll put it there also.
# singpolyma Oh? We're on 3-char codes for ISO now, yeah?
# singpolyma ran out of 2-char ones :)
# ChiefRA singpolyma not with full power unfortunately
# ChiefRA "lang" class does not support the new 3 letter chars code to define languages (ISO 639-3), so the different langs should be abbreviated by using the 2 letter chars code ISO 639-1.
# ChiefRA I have documented myself a lot about it when I have to do some modifications on a website.
# ChiefRA have = had
# singpolyma oh, you mean the html4 lang attribute?
# ChiefRA yup
# ChiefRA lots of websites are using HTML4 and they won't upgrade to HTML5
# singpolyma sure. I dunno if that's been changed/improved/taken out in HTML5/XML's xml:lang
# singpolyma unfortunately UAs don't seem to really do much with lang attribute :( story of the web. UAs tend to suck
# ChiefRA and if they do, then they will use microdata :)
# singpolyma maybe, but you can use microformats with microdata syntax, that's fine :)
# singpolyma there's no good reason to do it, but you can
# ChiefRA yeah, so far, I stick to HTML4 + microformats :)
# ChiefRA Can I use ( it is allowed?) 2 "note" subproperties within the same hCard?
# singpolyma ye
# ChiefRA as I can put one "note" subproperty for the description and the next one for languages as we speak. And when (if) we will add a new subproperty specifically designed to represent lang, I can change it.
# ChiefRA great, then I'll go for it in this way.
# ChiefRA I didn't mean they will never upgrade.
# ChiefRA my point is that they do not have the neccesary resources at this point.
# chiui look at amazon.com
# chiui huge inline css, almost no semantics
# ChiefRA and the HTML5 is not yet riched maturity as technology
# ChiefRA it needs time to settle down
# ChiefRA to fix at least major problems that appear, and only then, we might think to upgrade.
# ChiefRA in the mean time, we have to work with HTML4 and to make things batter from this level e.g. adding microformats to become better strutured is an important step.
# ChiefRA better*
# singpolyma ChiefRA: all it normally takes to "switch to HTML5" is changing the doctype, since it's almost backwards compatible
# ChiefRA singpolyma almost doesn't mean 100 % , not even by far.
# ChiefRA and if you're running a platform, it's not that easy.
# ChiefRA tantek, an example would be: http://www.ascentsir.com/eng
# edwardoconnor edited /Main_Page (-212) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Loveservice|Loveservice]] ([[User talk:Loveservice|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:EdwardOConnor|EdwardOConnor]]" (view diff)
# edwardoconnor edited /Special:Log/block () "blocked [[User:Loveservice]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites" (view diff)
# singpolyma almost means I'm not confident enough to bother saying 100%. I've never seen an issue, since browsers just ignore the doctype in practise anyway
# singpolyma stupid browsers :P
# ChiefRA it's not that cannot upgrade to HTML5, but requires a huge man power to change an etire platform, which has to be programmed.
# singpolyma hober: between 2 modes? right. sorry. "ignore" was strong
# singpolyma I have actually started using HTML5 tags (<section>, <aside>, <header>) on some client sites that declare as some other doctype, because their sites are hopelessly malformed anyway
# ChiefRA you probably won't validate in w3c
# singpolyma no. I just said, I do it on sites that are just tag soup anyway :P
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# ChiefRA :) then it doesn't matter. I am trying to be as close as possible to 100 % validation. I myself swhich from HTML to XHTML sometimes as it is required
# ChiefRA tantek do you think will be useful to create the same pages for coverage area?
# ChiefRA as they are on every company policy
# ChiefRA they are a fact*
# ChiefRA OK I've put 3 "note" subproperties to have all the info in there, Optimus validates it with no problem http://goo.gl/cDLW5 Google as well http://goo.gl/rtLjY :)
# ChiefRA yeah, the URL example is:
# ChiefRA a Real Estate Office have a coverage area, a "doing business" area
# ChiefRA they sell Real Estate properties only in those designated areas.
# ChiefRA that's for real estate. But discussing this on a more general approach, almost every business company has a specific area in which it's doing business.
# tantek interesting - I see the "Languages:" line also - you could add that example to http://microformats.org/wiki/languages-spoken-examples
# ChiefRA :) that's the website I'm working on :)
# ChiefRA thanks :)
# ChiefRA it's a bit ambiguous, Iknow, they've accidentaly included the whole US
# ChiefRA ok tantek, see Google Places as a huge example.
# ChiefRA every business subscribed to it, has automatically a coverage area of business
# ChiefRA ok :)
# ChiefRA I'm learning :P
# ChiefRA :)))))))
# ChiefRA I'll give you real examples, hold on.
# ChiefRA yup I'll do that
# ChiefRA the only example I have in mind so far, is pizza delivery
# ChiefRA they have a designated coverage area for pizza delivery
# ChiefRA but as you said, I'll provide exaples.
# ChiefRA examples*
# tantek edited /hcard-brainstorming (+312) "/* for hCard 1.1 */ consider languages-spoken" (view diff)
# chiefra created /coverage-area-examples (+264) "New page: This page arised from the need of marking up with microformats the coverage areas in which Organizations (and not only) are doing business. They have a designated specific place or a numbe..." (view diff)
# ChiefRA done. :)
# ChiefRA I'll add examples as soon as I get them, because I must search for specific businesses in Google Places to add them there. In the mean time, I'll ad my site as an example for spoken languages.
# tantek edited /hcard-brainstorming (+108) "/* for hCard 1.1 */ consider coverage-area-examples" (view diff)
# ChiefRA tantek where can we post a proposal for a certain subproperty regarding them: spoken languages and coverage area
# ChiefRA I will place the same website as an example for coverage area
# chiefra edited /languages-spoken-examples (+1) "/* Sothebys International Realty */ grammar correction" (view diff)
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# ChiefRA ok.
# ChiefRA ok. tomorrow I'll go on with more research the gather examples.
# tantek when you have a moment, have a quick skim of http://microformats.org/wiki/process
# ChiefRA :) you're welcome.
# ChiefRA I'll read the page you suggested and I'll move forward with it.
# ChiefRA see you tomorrow tantek. Have a great evening or ...
# ChiefRA morning
# ChiefRA :)))))))))
# tantek edited /xfn-brainstorming (+351) "/* fans and followers */ we're ready for rel=follower and rel=following - invitation for people to start writing these up" (view diff)
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