#microformats 2012-04-19
2012-04-19 UTC
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# 
Chief|AFK hi neuro`
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Loqi [http://twitter.com/jeet_dholakia] @hishaman sir that Author hReview problem is solved? Because i am still not getting it :-(
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# Loqi [http://twitter.com/andreas_io] cms' and text-input gui's please include microformats. Hardly any event advertised outside facebook google uses it http://t.co/zkNQlXhp
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# Loqi [http://twitter.com/amalinafarzana] @hifatinlatiff @Shahidan13 serious. Hatom ajak aku. Dia ckp nak bawak hud sekali. Tp tal cnfrm lagi sayangku
# Loqi [http://twitter.com/fmpjnej] @wenyunchao Ieta Nakedprisoner Da HCards Work Naked Prisoner Josef Geisle
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# rossputin Hi, we have an idea for a sitemap protocol microformat which we have not seen under existing, draft or exploratory-discussions
# rossputin We would therefore like to ask here on IRC whether anyone has started any such effort or whether it has been previously dismissed/abandoned ?
# rossputin Is it permissible to post a link to an informal document detailing our idea ?
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tantek rossputin - have you read http://microformats.org/wiki/process?
# rossputin Hi
# rossputin yes, I ticked off the previously mentioned steps so far
# rossputin and thought IRC was next ?
# rossputin I am working through that page this evening
# rossputin have not done the interesting examples step yet
# rossputin Hi apologies...
# rossputin I interpreted the 'Why?' section a little different
# rossputin my mistake
# weavejester Isn't microformats.org a fairly complete list of all known microformats?
# rossputin so now I should be looking at 'Why examples first?' under 'Document Current Behaviour' ?
# weavejester i.e. if an equivalent isn't on microformats.org, can we assume that one doesn't exist?
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barnabywalters weavejester - pretty much, yes
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# rossputin ok, cool...
# rossputin just moving on to 'Why examples first' now
# weavejester barnabywalters: Ah good.
# weavejester I've been meaning to submit a microformat draft for documenting forum posts (followup, author, in-reply-to, etc.)
# weavejester Though I haven't got around to writing it up yet.
# rossputin ok so, sorry for the confusion but do I state a use case in here first before writing anywhere else ?
# rossputin ok...
# rossputin we think machines could generate a sitemap.xml by reading the ever present nav on so many sites… if a little semantic information was provided for priority/changereq etc
# rossputin we have a requirement to do it ourselves in a product we are working on
# weavejester tantek: hatom seemed to be linear last time I looked.
# rossputin but think it is useful outside of our toolsets
# rossputin plugins etc
# rossputin yes
# rossputin exactly
# barnabywalters I thought sitemap.xml was intended to tell search engines about sites that they weren't likely to find out about via crawls?
# rossputin currently not done AFAIK
# rossputin it is intended to provide ancillary info to crawlers
# rossputin such as how often is the site updated...
# weavejester tantek: I was thinking of a microformat to semantically document a hierarchical set of messages, such as a forum, or newsgroup archive.
# rossputin and how important does the author think certain pages are etc
# rossputin sort of tailoring the crawl process a little
# barnabywalters rossputin yes, I suppose data like that could be useful to users too
# tantek cool, so let's start with that. rossputin, start a page http://microformats.org/wiki/sitemap, and state the use-case right there at the top, and provide links to *-example, *-formats, *-brainstorms pages. see the http://microformats.org/wiki/comment page for a decent start to a top level page to start a specific effort/exploration
# rossputin ok, I will do
# rossputin thank you for the feedback and guidance guys
# weavejester tantek: Well, personally speaking I want to be able to store a forum archive in a format that is both human readable and parsable by a machine. By adding in information like rel="followup", a parser can understand the structure of the archived posts, so that it doesn't confuse a link referencing a previous post, with a link to the response of a post. If that makes sense.
# weavejester Ah, he/she left.
# barnabywalters he
# barnabywalters that sounds useful
# weavejester I might implement it in code first, so I'm sure it's useful, before publishing a draft. If I use it in anger, I have a better idea of which elements of the design work and whether it's useful.
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# barnabywalters would you want to store only a linear thread, or a multidimensional thread?
# weavejester barnabywalters: One post could have many followup links.
# barnabywalters yep, but are all the responses considered responses to the original post, or can responses be directed at other responses?
# weavejester Ah, no, I'm assuming that there's one post per page.
# barnabywalters Ah, okay
# barnabywalters that's more complicated.
# weavejester Yes, if there are multiple messages on one page, it's difficult to use links to structure them
# weavejester And for the job I need it for, each message will have its own URL.
# weavejester Most forums have "permalinks" to posts anyway.
# weavejester It might be that the scheme I have in mind has limited use, so perhaps I should just implement it for the use I have in mind first.
# barnabywalters I think we do need this kind of markup
# barnabywalters just thinking how to do it in a way that is flexible and extensible
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# weavejester The hard part is doing that without making it more complex :)
# barnabywalters yh :)
# barnabywalters my publishing system currently has a pertaining_to field, which is pretty abstract
# barnabywalters how about marking up <blockquote> elements with links back to the posts they originated from?
# barnabywalters not sure if cite="" is appropriate for that
# barnabywalters so you could link each response to the original post, link any blockquoted material back to the post it's from, and order the whole shebang by the publish date to get a linked-up thread
# weavejester barnabywalters: Perhaps. It's starting to get beyond the itch I want to scratch though ;)
# weavejester barnabywalters: Linking back blockquoted material is a good idea, though...
# barnabywalters I think that technique would be good as it's extendable
# barnabywalters e.g. one post can be a response to multiple others with minimal metadata
# barnabywalters what exactly is the itch you need to scratch?
# weavejester barnabywalters: Essentially web site A wants to be able to import threaded messages from web site B
# barnabywalters ah, okay. Given what resources? Just the original post URI?
# weavejester barnabywalters: Yes. I can also assume that each post is its own resource.
# barnabywalters so site A needs to be able to discover all possible replies to a given resource, and order them
# weavejester Right. And also any parents. I was thinking links for "followup" and "in-reply-to". Also "author" (already in use) and "recipient".
# weavejester The subject of the message would just be the title
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# weavejester The body would, well, be the body.
# barnabywalters so, given any thread, Site A needs to traverse both up and down the thread and discover all of the posts related to the one it's given
# barnabywalters *given any post
# weavejester barnabywalters: Yes… I hadn't thought much about transversing up, but I guess it should do.
# weavejester barnabywalters: I was going to sanitize the HTML and cache the result.
# barnabywalters in that case, yes, follow-up and reply-to seem like a pretty solid solution
# weavejester I'll have to see how it works in practise
# weavejester The other way is to just use JSON, but...
# weavejester Semantic HTML seems a better solution.
# barnabywalters look at it this way: if you do an implementation yourself, you'll have a really good example if you want to make a threading-examples page on the wiki ;)
# weavejester barnabywalters: Hah! Yes, that's true. :)
# barnabywalters I wonder if this is the kind of thing you can make, say, a phpBB plugin for
# barnabywalters weavejester: Might be worth having a look at the activitystreams extension draft for this kind of thing http://activitystrea.ms/specs/json/replies/1.0/
# weavejester barnabywalters: Ultimately my plan is to make plugins for this.
# weavejester barnabywalters: Effectively my plan is to send POST requests with a single "href" parameter that signifies a new or updated resource
# weavejester barnabywalters: So two forums could effectively stay in sync via an open protocol.
# barnabywalters that sounds like activitystreams to me
# barnabywalters possibly salmon too, although I'm not so familiar with that one
# weavejester barnabywalters: I wasn't aware of activitystreams. I'll take a closer look.
# weavejester Though at first glance it seems more complex.
# barnabywalters it is quite complex
# weavejester I wanted something where I could write: curl -X POST -d "href=http://..."
# weavejester And for that to be basically the entire protocol :)
# weavejester Plus some microformat on the resource itself.
# tantek edited /events (-95) "remove obsolete parenthetical remark about dtend for multiple day event template per [[dtend-issue]]" (view diff)
# barnabywalters well, I think that using in-reply-to and responses(/whatever ) is going to be the simplest and most solid solution
# barnabywalters but if the aim is to create a near-real time update/sync system, then the added complexity of salmon http://www.salmon-protocol.org/ and activitystreams will make the system more interoperable with other services
# barnabywalters got to go now, bye
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