#microformats 2012-05-30

2012-05-30 UTC
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@Kurdishswagg97 @Dahas615 @ahmad_615 nigggggga I'll cut you!! Ava es hatom mala te.....Lmao I think I spelt all of that wronf
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tantek !block Kurdishswagg97
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Loqi Got it! There are now 57 spammers blacklisted
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tantek edited /hcard-examples-in-wild (+468) "/* examples by category */ add Event Speakers section and Fluent 2012" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hcard-examples-in-wild (+64) "/* related pages */ hCalendar examples in the wild related" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hcalendar-examples-in-wild (+221) "conference sessions e.g. fluent conference, rm refs to old Technorati service" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hcalendar-examples-in-wild (+56) "/* related pages */ hCard examples in the wild" (view diff)
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@microformats #FluentConf supports hCard & hCalendar #microformats on session pages, e.g. http://t.co/f3B7A7Xi Well done @oreillymedia!
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@t progress: Twitter permalinks drop hashbangs #!, now serve content w/o JS: http://t.co/lUeao5Cl Perhaps add hAtom too? (ttk.me t4J94)
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slatercumming738 created /SlaterCumming738 (+476) "New page: This shoe runs narrow, so in case you are a minimalist runner buy it in EE. New Stability nearly has it suitable, this shoe could use a bit more safety under the forefoot, not the ideal s..." (view diff)
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slatercumming738 created /User:SlaterCumming738 (+476) "New page: This shoe runs narrow, so in case you are a minimalist runner buy it in EE. New Stability nearly has it suitable, this shoe could use a bit more safety under the forefoot, not the ideal s..." (view diff)
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@mahakaryadunia Adum nad hatom @unklodie @LabAshWarTeam
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@StepUpWeb hCard Как использовать для сайта? Советы http://t.co/b3EQ1GsS
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@seolobster #Google seems have to have stopped #RichSnippet Support für #hcalendar - way to many using the 3 xtra links for "other purposes"? ;)
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tantek edited /Special:Log/block () "blocked [[User:SlaterCumming738]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites" (view diff)
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tantek deleted /SlaterCumming738 "content was spam"
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tantek deleted /User:SlaterCumming738 "content was spam"
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justinbutcher edited /hcard-examples-in-wild () "(-16068)" (view diff)
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justinbutcher edited /hcard-examples-in-wild (+527) (view diff)
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justinbutcher edited /hcard-examples-in-wild (-312) (view diff)
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Jonadabe Hi there. I'm new here, but I would like to ask: has schema.org anything to do with microformats.org?
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tantek Jonadabe at the schema.org workshop last year, myself and others ask the schema.org folks to please re-use successful microformats, and the response we got was that they were more interested in essentially making up their own vocabularies.
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tantek microformats.org is a community for developing real-world-research based vocabularies launched 2005-06-20 (going strong almost 7 years now)
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tantek schema.org was launched as essentially a Google side-project where they got Microsoft to agree to put their name (and some support) on it, and thus Yahoo by proxy.
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tantek there's no community there, just a few big companies essentially acting as an oligopoly
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Jonadabe hum... I see...
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Jonadabe where can I find something like this http://schema.org/docs/full.html at mircoformats.org ?
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tantek jonadabe - that's a good question. what do you find useful about that "full.html" page?
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Jonadabe The entire colection about what can be used... in my case maybe Store, Product, etc.
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tantek so for microformats, the list of root class names (vcard, vevent, hfeed, hetnry, hreview, hproduct, hrecipe) and various properties (fn, url, photo, …) ?
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Jonadabe yes... why are they called v-something or h-something?
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Jonadabe Are this microformats recognized by the search engines (like google, yahoo and maybe other)?
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tantek yes - microformats have been recognized by search engines for far longer than any schema.
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Jonadabe And what should be the DOCTYPE to use microformats?
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tantek jonadabe - microformats work with any DOCTYPE
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tantek re: search engine support: http://microformats.org/wiki/search-engines
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tantek re: why h-something: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q._What_is_the_.27h.27_for.2C_in_front_of_Calendar_and_Card.3F
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Jonadabe hum... you know, the microformats.org site I saw it back some years ago... and must admit that its a bit confusing to me... It seems that you did a great job and all the other contributors, but I think honestly all the site should be remodeled thinking on someone who knows nothing about it. Sometimes the problem is having to mutch information at once... that is my humble opinion. ;-)
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tantek that's a very good point
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tantek make it even simpler
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tantek so in light of your comment about "having to much information at once" - how does the "full.html
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tantek "
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tantek page you linked to avoid that problem?
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tantek and btw - yes, we have been working on simplifying the specs and the formats themselves - I'd be interested in your opinion of the hCard spec, at least the top first few parts of it, as that's been one of our leading simplification efforts: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
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Jonadabe tantek: don't see me wrong (all that information is very good and usefull. That's not the point here!), but honestly what is more reable this http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard or this http://schema.org/Person (I have nothing to do with schema.org I stumbled into the site 1 or 2 ours ago!)
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Jonadabe *readable instead of reable
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Jonadabe *hours instead of ours ;-)
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tantek so here's a couple of points to consider in terms of readability (because I do think we've done a better job with the start of hCard than the schema/Person page
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tantek what does "Expected Type" mean to the average web author person? do they care?
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tantek what makes something new easier to understand, a short example (right there at the top of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard ) or a giant abstract table?
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tantek and if you're comparing tables, which of these is easier to understand the schema/Person table, or the hCard properties summary list: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Properties ?
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tantek make that three (not "a couple of") points ;)
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tantek I'm honestly trying to understand why you would ask if the schema/person page is more readable
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tantek (and btw - if anyone else on the channel has opinions on this, suggestions for improvement, please chime in!)
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aaronpk I really like the hcard page! Here is how I read it:
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aaronpk header: hCard 1.0. then I see a long line of text that I don't read, and my eyes skip down to the example. at this point I understand it can be used to represent people and organizations.
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aaronpk then I look at the table, which is very easy to read since the properties are bold, and the examples to the right are perfect since I immediately see how they are used in real life
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aaronpk then I keep scrolling down past all the text, and past the long list of properties which doesn't make sense with no context next to it
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aaronpk eventually i see more code samples, but I am less clear on the purpose of them. at this point, I am happy to understand the basics of what the hcard is for, and I will visit the page later as a reference when I go and use it
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aaronpk there you go, a live usability narrative of that page :)
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tantek aaronpk - thanks - the latter parts, i.e. everything http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Background and later, has yet to be redesigned/rewritten.
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tantek I'm currently redesigning/rewriting the "Status" section: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Status - making my way through the spec one section at a time.
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micha-- hi, i want to add microformats to my contact details on my homepage
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micha-- right now it is a block like <address> john doe<br> some street <br> some town </address>
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micha-- how do i do this best? should i but a vcard <span> inside the address block?
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micha-- somehow this doesn't feel right
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tantek micha - do you want to only have an address? or a name, URL, email, telephone etc.?
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micha-- everything
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micha-- but it is spread over the page
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tantek then you want to use an hCard - http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
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micha-- there is a list of contact options
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tantek you can make the whole page one hCard
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tantek and then markup the properties wherever they occur
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micha-- so i make the whole page a <span class="vcard">?
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tantek micha - you can put the class="vcard" on the <body>
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tantek no need to add another span
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micha-- is there a way to say that this is my homepage?
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micha-- i want to put the vcard onto my website
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micha-- and i think it would be strange to put there a link to itself
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tantek yes - putting it on your home page makes a lot of sense
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tantek micha - take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring for getting started with hCard authoring
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micha-- that helps, thanks
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Jonadabe says thanks to everyone especialy to tantek and parts...
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micha-- is there a way to have "hidden" input for the vcard?
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micha-- i have one fax number and one office number
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micha-- but i don't want to write "work" onto the contact page
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tantek micha - "work" is part of the default type so you don't have to write it
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micha-- so i define one as type fax and the other without a type?
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tantek micha - right
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micha-- is there some kind of hcard validator?
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micha-- i am trying this with bing webmaster tools and it doesn't look quite right
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tantek micha - yes, there are a few validators. see: http://microformats.org/wiki/validators
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tantek what problems are you seeing with bing webmaster tools?
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micha-- i have defined my pgp key as class "key", but it's not there
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micha-- and for tel and url it seems to use the "pretty" human readable version, not the data
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micha-- i am trying to set the tel number like this: <span class="tel"><span class="value"><abbr title="+493097005601">030/97 00 56 01</abbr></span></span>
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micha-- but both google and bing seem to return only the user-visible part
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micha-- any idea how to do it better?
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singpolyma get rid of the span
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singpolyma less tags == better
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singpolyma you could also switch abbr-design-pattern for value-design-pattern, if you wish
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singpolyma but I think either is supported
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singpolyma for clarity: the class="value" can totally go on the <abbr>
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singpolyma for example
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micha-- ah, okay
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singpolyma spans and divs are always a last resort
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micha-- yup, much better :)
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micha-- and why doesn't this work? <span class="url" title="http://judiz.de"></span>
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micha-- i don't want to put a link to my homepage onto my homepage, that's redundant
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singpolyma uh... links must be <a> tags, that's just how HTML is
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singpolyma you can hide it if you want, but I've never had a problem having links to my homepage on my homepage, or similar
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tantek micha - perhaps just an empty link then? <a class="url" title="http://judiz.de"></a> ?
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tantek also - Firefox Operator is useful for debugging
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tantek or put it on your Start link
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tantek in the top left
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tantek edited /validators (+126) "/* Mozilla Firefox */ direct link to main operator article" (view diff)
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tantek micha check out http://microformats.org/wiki/operator
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tantek and <a class="url" href="/">Start</a> (a link you already have on your kontakt page)
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micha-- tantek: thanks, i will try operator...
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micha-- i try to avoid editing the menu part... the menu is generated from templates, so i would need to add an exception to the template (if url = kontakt do...)
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tantek or just an extra class there - likely harmless :)
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micha-- how is the "key" supposed to work? i tried it with my pgp key: <a href="http://judiz.de/below11.asc" type="application/pgp-keys" class="key">hier</a>
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micha-- but that isn't recognized
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micha-- or is it a different kind of key?
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tantek micha - the support for key is currently experimental at best, both in vCard and hCard on the web. Although in the past year there have been some promising developments. Here is the latest on "key" :
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#key_property_for_webid
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micha-- oh, okay
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micha-- i was thinking of pgp keys, but this is different
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tantek if you've got suggestions, they're certainly welcome
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tantek e.g. for how to use the "key" property with a PGP key published on the web
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tantek I think it could be very useful
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tantek just not sure where to start
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micha-- my idea was to use it with a key url
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micha-- so i have an entry in my vcard that points to the location of my pgp pubkey
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micha-- but this webID-stuff looks far more sophisticated
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tantek interesting
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tantek so "key" should be of type URL
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tantek a-ha, and in vCard4 RFC6350 6.8.1. KEY it is defined as a URI
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tantek "To specify a public key or authentication certificate associated with the object that the vCard represents."
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tantek edited /microformats-2 (+27) "/* h-card */ note key is a URI" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats-2 (+39) "/* h-card */ compat "key" parse as u-" (view diff)
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micha-- wow
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@Work__Freelance Freelance HTML Job - transform 10 HTML reviews into hreview microformat http://t.co/bQjQnG3I #freelance #jobs
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tantek nice
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@freelancergigs transform 10 HTML reviews into hreview microformat by vandervan http://t.co/BWFk6tS5
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@GeekFreelancers New #Job: Transform 10 HTML Reviews Into Hreview Microformat http://t.co/LdYmwxh6
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@freelanceSearch transform 10 HTML reviews into hreview microformat by vandervan http://t.co/I0FKlqBt #Freelance jobs
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tantek though I suppose it didn't need to be posted five times
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tantek edited /hcard-examples-in-wild (+15853) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Justinbutcher|Justinbutcher]] ([[User talk:Justinbutcher|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Special:Log/block () "blocked [[User:Justinbutcher]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Removing content from pages: new account, no other contributions, just vandalism." (view diff)
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