#microformats 2013-06-16
2013-06-16 UTC
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# anddam two topics, one referral, zero interests
# anddam interest*
# anddam I'm trying to figure out how to extract content from a joomla website in hatom, my purpose is to upload the content on Google Sites
# anddam I've been reading in the wiki, so far what I read is extremely useful but I somehow vague
# anddam (for me)
# 
barnabywalters anddam: what website do you wish to extract content from, and in what format do you want it?
# anddam barnabywalters: it's a friend's site in Joomla 1.5, I'd like to save more of the data I can in hAtom and import it onto a Google Site site using the google-data-liberation tool that uses hAtom
# anddam actually that's the reason I've been reading about hatom in first place
# anddam I didn't even know what Atom was before this
# anddam and of course I didn't know about microformats
# barnabywalters anddam:so you know about the difference between ATOM and hAtom, right?
# anddam now I do and the "human first" principle sounds great
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# anddam barnabywalters: I'm going with "yes"
# anddam you have to consider this syndication thing is a bit new to me
# anddam but I've read the statements on wiki
# anddam it's a reduced set of Atom, reusing existing formats, with an emphasis on human readability
# barnabywalters anddam: no problem :) ATOM is an XML format for marking up feeds of content, hAtom is a microformat which allows you to put the same semantics into HTML so you don’t need two copies of everything (HTML and ATOM)
# anddam Atom being an XML format for semantically describe contents
# anddam oh so hatom is HTML, this I missed
# anddam probably because in my miind HTML and XML are blurred
# barnabywalters anddam: I had never heard of the google site liberator, this is interesting — is your friend’s joomla site already marked up using hAtom?
# anddam lol no
# anddam and I doubt he'll ever even read about it
# anddam the point is he asked to handle the site, and I don't like Joomla
# barnabywalters from reading https://code.google.com/p/google-sites-liberation/wiki/UsersGuide it looks like the idea is that you can upload HTML with hAtom to google sites and it’ll parse the content out and import it
# anddam that's exactly my goal
# anddam but I have to export the data in hatom first
# barnabywalters anddam: can you edit the joomla templates?
# barnabywalters you could add hAtom to them then make a static copy of the site
# anddam never did but I could try
# anddam the point is what "tags" (not sure it's the right term) should I be using?
# anddam the point is I don't have experience with hatom
# anddam title, body and author sounds obvious
# barnabywalters anddam: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples should make things a bit clearer
# barnabywalters essentially you need to add some classnames to elements in the joomla templates which you wish to export
# anddam in the examples-in-the-wild page I see references to hCalendar and hCard, how do they fit in a blog stream?
# anddam barnabywalters: I thought about finding an exporter plugin for joomla
# barnabywalters anddam: hCard is used to mark up post authors, I have no idea whether or not the google sites parser understands it though
# barnabywalters if one exists that would be worth a try
# anddam there are a lot, most of them with confusing description
# barnabywalters maybe a good idea would be to get a static copy of one of the pages you want to export, add hAtom classnames by hand, try importing it an see if it works
# anddam I see
# anddam I'm glad that I understood this subtle difference
# anddam hatom is HTML
# 
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# anddam is Loqi spamming in the chan normal?
# barnabywalters anddam: Loqi lets us know when the wiki gets edited, and we have a lot of wiki spam :/
# anddam can't you auth wiki editors?
# barnabywalters anddam: I’m not the admin — I think forcing auth prevents lots of casual editors adding in-the-wild examples
# barnabywalters and most of the bots are users anyway
# barnabywalters getting past captchas
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aaronpk !tell tantek I'm having trouble figuring out how http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-formats should be represented in microformats-2. Thinking either 1) document an "h-measure" pattern or 2) use the proposed "n-*" prefix to be able to describe numbers with different units as is done on the "measure-formats" page
# barnabywalters aaronpk: what cleaning/sanitisation are you doing to incoming microformat reply contexts/comments?
# barnabywalters a bunch of generic useful little functions when dealing with mf data, with an emphasis on foolproof handling of bad data
# barnabywalters less insane
# barnabywalters e.g. how do you deal with a note with no author?
# barnabywalters aaronpk: oh, mf-cleaner is for sanitising *structure* not content
# barnabywalters that has to happen at the parser level and by the application
# barnabywalters actually I documented the whole p-* e-* thing here with a potential solution: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing#issues
# barnabywalters that’s pretty much the idea of mf-cleaner
# aaronpk it's not very big, and totally not documented or tested :D https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5792949
# barnabywalters but the idea is to do more tricky stuff like, if h-entry.author only has a name and URL but there’s another h-card on the page with more details, include them
# aaronpk some highlights: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5792949#file-mf2-php-L58 (stringForProperty) and https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5792949#file-mf2-php-L32 (findFirstItem)
# barnabywalters (which should be solved through the include pattern but no one knows about that)
# barnabywalters aaronpk: thanks, reading
# barnabywalters exactly, that’s the idea
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# barnabywalters oh interesting extension of mf2\Parser!
# barnabywalters you got it, Loqi
# barnabywalters “thoughts”?
# barnabywalters brainstorming? research?
# barnabywalters I’d say just add them to the top of the existing measure-* pages
# barnabywalters that’s what we did with comments
# aaronpk edited /measure-brainstorming (+23) "placeholder section for microformats2 work" (view diff)
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: what’s your use case for measures? QS data?
# barnabywalters having a microformat for such things would make the idea I had yesterday much easier
# aaronpk also check this out! http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2013/06/16/071228/ and the corresponding JSON: http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2013/06/16/071228.json
# barnabywalters basically a service which subscribes to a h-feed, does some basic parsing and produces nice graphs
# barnabywalters ooh, nice
# barnabywalters pretty graph!
# barnabywalters cool
# barnabywalters histogram, right? what do the colours mean?
# barnabywalters sleep cycles?
# barnabywalters that’s great
# barnabywalters need EEG for that :)
# barnabywalters in addition to steps and iOS data, I was thinking of trying to record the amount of waste I generate
# barnabywalters even just as simple as weighing trash bags
# barnabywalters not human waste ;)
# barnabywalters I thought that was a “woah” of disgust :D
# barnabywalters aaronpk: the problem for me is going to be collecting all the waste I generate which *isn’t* at home
# barnabywalters without looking any weirder than I already do
# barnabywalters yeah…
# barnabywalters maybe I’ll try starting next week. every day weigh the trash I generate and log it with my steps. then decide whether or not it’s viable in the long run
# barnabywalters aaronpk: in the particular example use a <data> element
# 
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# barnabywalters <data> has pretty much killed the value-class pattern
# barnabywalters apart from splitting dates from times, which is a horrible but necessary edge case
# barnabywalters so <data class="p-num" value="79300">79.3</data>kg
# barnabywalters hm, perhaps not. it’s certainly in the parsing spec
# barnabywalters right now that’s the most solid source of mf2 documentation
# 
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: generally the feeling towards new property names is to use *-x-* when brainstorming, then solidify them after research and first examples in the wild
# barnabywalters as for p-author h-card, it’s one of the less intuitive parts of mf2
# aaronpk created /User:Aaronpk (+148) "created my user page with public domain license" (view diff)
# barnabywalters basically when the parser finds a child h-* which also has another mf2 class, it uses the child as the value for the property, but also parses the element as if it was the other property and adds that to child.value
# barnabywalters it’s easy to see how it works, just a little tricky to try to explain :)
# aaronpk edited /measure-brainstorming (+4772) "/* microformats2 */ brainstorming microformats-2 version of measurements" (view diff)
# aaronpk would be curious to hear your thoughts on the 3 different versions: http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-brainstorming#microformats2
# barnabywalters reads
# barnabywalters edited /measure-brainstorming (+135) "/* microformats2 */ made code blocks <source>s to get syntax highlighting" (view diff)
# barnabywalters okay, couple of things going on here, leaving discussion blocks
# barnabywalters edited /measure-brainstorming (+243) "/* Proposal: h-measure named with p-* */ added child-only limitation" (view diff)
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: just to clarify, are all the examples supposed to be in the context of a parent microformat?
# barnabywalters certainly the third proposal only makes any sense in that context
# barnabywalters aaronpk: the h-measure p-* proposal example only makes any sense if the context of the HTML is inside a parent microformat
# barnabywalters aaronpk: sure it could, but the example and the JSON given make no sense
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# barnabywalters essentially, the use cases you’re talking about all boil down to a value and a unit
# aaronpk yes, see: http://microformats.org/wiki/measure
# friedcell just found microformats logo rotated at http://socialwalldemo.perceptionanalytics.net/slotalent
# barnabywalters friedcell: ha, nice :/
# friedcell slovenian company, told them to fire their designer :)
# friedcell the sizes of squares are exactly the same, I checked :)
# barnabywalters woah, some of those hmeasure examples are complex
# barnabywalters hmeasure as the tolerance rating of another hmeasure
# barnabywalters edited /measure-brainstorming (+1945) "/* Proposal: h-measure named with p-* */ updated examples to show context, gave real JSON" (view diff)
# barnabywalters !tell aaronpk I changed the example and JSON, let me know what you think. off for the evening now
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 4 hours, 3 minutes ago: I'm having trouble figuring out how http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-formats should be represented in microformats-2. Thinking either 1) document an "h-measure" pattern or 2) use the proposed "n-*" prefix to be able to describe numbers with different units as is done on the "measure-formats" page
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