#microformats 2013-08-15
2013-08-15 UTC
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# 
0xy741xdw8 edited /User:0xy741xdw8 (+2916) "/* until close to the objective of. */ new section" (view diff)
# 
@Martin_Cooney nice - Review of Author hReview for Serious Bloggers - http://www.cooney.com.au/review-of-author-hreview-for-serious-bloggers (twitter.com/_/status/367926151202615296)
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# 9ic743ykj1 edited /User:9ic743ykj1 (+2472) "/* Two fat cat owner died after the body fat starve the carry o */ new section" (view diff)
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# 0ht613won6 edited /User:0ht613won6 (+4550) "/* College students should know how to allocate the vacation ti */ new section" (view diff)
# 4jy129oda8 edited /User:4jy129oda8 (+2152) "/* Argentina and Chile border a volcano gas between the two cou */ new section" (view diff)
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# 9ic743ykj1 edited /User:9ic743ykj1 (+4516) "/* The Russian fifth generation fighter T50 successful first fl */ new section" (view diff)
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# herodxl71c edited /User:Herodxl71c (+3281) "/* Custom Packers Jerseys Xfo98Qu - So using this product line */ new section" (view diff)
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# 9ic743ykj1 edited /User:9ic743ykj1 (+3796) "/* Philippines 15 senior officials and media face prosecution. */ new section" (view diff)
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# erlehmann tantek, tell!
# 
tantek I like the title - "The Uncomplicated Web" of http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/docs/the-uncomplicated-web.html
# erlehmann the thing is, i am not entirely against stuff that disregards the guideline.
# erlehmann i just think that most of it *will* be complicated
# erlehmann tantek, qualify “exception”.
# erlehmann > No pagination, except for collections of self-contained compositions or very long lists.
# erlehmann well, you can of course render your embedded postscript you fetched via ajax in a web worker thread and display it on the go – but that is no longer uncomplicated.
# erlehmann i actually planned to write some, for my own pages. i did not.
# erlehmann heh, i tested transfer size with curl.
# erlehmann i wrote that article when i found that the signal to noise ratio is very high
# erlehmann like, for 50k of text, i get 2MB of advertising and tracking
# erlehmann ah, very low
# erlehmann sorry. signal to noise is very low. small. low signal, high noise.
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# erlehmann shaners, i understand!
# erlehmann the simpler a format, the simpler to compare the output.
# erlehmann desudesudesu /home/erlehmann
# erlehmann 1011 ~ % curl http://example.org -w '%
{size_download}' -s | tail -n1# erlehmann 1270%
# erlehmann tantek!
# erlehmann you are just tantek with a different name!
# tantek shaners, add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people :)
# erlehmann tantek http://newestindustry.org/2006/10/03/baseline-testing-with-curl-2/
# erlehmann i once got k-lined at foonetic
# erlehmann because people were assuming i were a bot
# erlehmann and i was just telling them i was not a bot whenevery they suspected it
# erlehmann so they thought i was a bot telling everyone he is not a bot
# erlehmann (of course, i am not a bot)
# erlehmann tantek, this is an even better post http://dev.nuclearrooster.com/2009/11/08/checking-gzipdeflate-server-responses-with-curl/
# erlehmann bret, not me!
# erlehmann look who's talking!
# tantek erlhemann - let me know when you've updated http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/docs/the-uncomplicated-web.html
# erlehmann 1027 ~ % curl -s -o /dev/null -w '%
{size_download}' http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/# erlehmann 41714
# erlehmann 1028 ~ % curl -s -o /dev/null -w '%
{size_download}' http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/ --compressed# erlehmann 12893
# erlehmann so easy!
# erlehmann :)
# erlehmann i'll better link to http://dev.nuclearrooster.com/2009/11/08/checking-gzipdeflate-server-responses-with-curl/
# erlehmann hmmm.
# erlehmann i better make a separate test tools suite.
# erlehmann it would be better. i think there is no universal tool besides -prefix-free that i can recommend.
# erlehmann (and -prefix-free really speeds up development)
# erlehmann tantek, actually would like to know the psychology behind this ”žlet's make a web page that does not fit on a floppy“ thing i see lately
# erlehmann i only met one guy who told me the reason is that he needed money, because he had debts
# erlehmann financial debt. so his blog is full of advertising.
# erlehmann tantek, take any newspaper web site and measure signal to noise ratio. or take twitter, 1,5MB or so of assets to display 140 characters.
# erlehmann there must be something behind that that goes beyond “just use jquery”. these sites are not all built buy inexperienced people with overpowered hardware.
# erlehmann s/buy/by/g
# erlehmann is that a bot?
# erlehmann s/bot/regex\ bot/g
# erlehmann lawl :3
# erlehmann abc
# erlehmann s/([ab]+)[ab]/\1/g
# erlehmann what
# erlehmann s/w/'';!--"<XSS>=&
{()}/g# erlehmann great success :3
# erlehmann s/3/1\n2/g
# erlehmann (i'll stop)
# tantek edited /irc-people (+150) "add ??? and parenthesize those who put their full names but not their IRC nicknames" (view diff)
# erlehmann tantek, have a description for tabular data that does not present well as a table?
# tantek edited /irc-people (+15) "fix haibtdt use of template, and RobertBachmann parentheses" (view diff)
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# erlehmann again here
# erlehmann tantek “rel is always document scoped in HTML5” is wrong according to WHATWG spec.
# erlehmann > The bookmark keyword gives a permalink for the nearest ancestor article element of the linking element in question, or of the section the linking element is most closely associated with, if there are no ancestor article elements.
# erlehmann > For a and area elements, the author keyword indicates that the referenced document provides further information about the author of the nearest article element ancestor of the element defining the hyperlink, if there is one, or of the page as a whole, otherwise.
# erlehmann i cannot use e-content because i have no content-wrapping stuff
# erlehmann the insides of the article element is the content
# erlehmann for my actual microblog use case, h-entry looks like bloat. i do not have a full social profile to show off.
# erlehmann i have u-url and dt-published already
# tantek edited /Template:irc_user (-58) "dropping hcard markup because this simple wiki template syntax doesn't afford any clues to precise semantics. need something field based (like on WP)." (view diff)
# erlehmann and u-url is already covered by rel=bookmark
# erlehmann tantek, the only thing that my web site does not provide machine readably currently is that the time displayed is the time at which the article was published
# erlehmann rel=bookmark scopes to the nearest article element and is in the html5 spec
# erlehmann yeah
# erlehmann i try to find out if there is something that is easier than h-entry. reading up on h-entry in the process
# erlehmann i think it is too heavyweight for me.
# erlehmann generall, are properties the plain text content of elements?
# erlehmann tantek, later definitions overrule. hAtom actually looks easy!
# erlehmann i'll use hAtom then
# erlehmann looks way easier than h-entry
# Hixie <article> wasn't in html4
# Hixie so there's no back-compat breakage
# erlehmann tantek, the source code of hipster news is easier since i can assume scoping to <article>
# erlehmann Hixie, is there an simple way to markup the <article> pubdate? the pubdate attribute was removed, was it?
# Hixie erlehmann: yeah, seach for "publication date" in the html spec (http://whatwg.org/C)
# erlehmann shaners, scopes to something that has to have a class name, not to <article>
# Hixie er, http://whatwg.org/c
# erlehmann thx
# erlehmann tantek, i find the implicit scoping of rel values way easier than the class thingy.
# erlehmann shaners, i already have <article> – why should i add a class?
# erlehmann tantek, i want to write less verbose pages with the same information.
# Hixie shaners: boo, you shouldn't ignore the semantics of the elements :-)
# erlehmann i want it to be easy to consume. so i'll go html5 spec first and then look elsewhere
# erlehmann tantek, i'll just use what the spec says about publication date and see how it goes.
# Hixie thinks erlehmann is about to be disappointed, unfortunately
# erlehmann shaners, no, but i don't need mf2 for hipster news, apparently.
# Hixie (the html spec uses "a fictional microdata vocabulary based on the Atom vocabulary" in one example, and schema.org in the other two)
# Hixie i don't think h-entry really existed back when these examples were written, but yeah, feel free to file a bug with some sample code and i'll try to add it
# erlehmann shaners, easy authoring, easy parsing. h-entry looks complicated to me, compared to ”žscope to nearest article element and use link relations“
# Hixie erlehmann: at the risk of restarting the conversation from the top, what are you trying to do, at a high level? :-)
# erlehmann schema org has “isFamilyFriendly”
# erlehmann awwww
# erlehmann Hixie, i have a minimalist blog software running at http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net
# erlehmann i want to make the content more accessible. but i found that the only thing that is missing is that the article publication date is denoted assuch
# erlehmann (source code of the blog software can be downloaded at the bottom of the page)
# Hixie what do you mean by "accessible" ?
# erlehmann machine-readable.
# erlehmann so i already have a feed. maybe i'll just add a link rel=alternate
# Hixie what do you mean by "machine-readable"?
# erlehmann i want a crawler to be able to infer the semantics of the document. like this: http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fservices.w3.org%2Ftidy%2Ftidy%3FdocAddr%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fnews.dieweltistgarnichtso.net%26passThroughXHTML%3D1&xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F08%2Fextract-semantic.xsl
# Hixie why?
# Hixie that seems like a solution. what's the high-level problem you're trying to solve?
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# erlehmann i want the content to be accessible for a broadest range of users this includes users with diminished sensor or computational capability.
# erlehmann hixie, i have thought about the issue and now think that linking to a feed of the content actually achieves this already.
# Hixie erlehmann: what makes you think the content is not already accessible by everyone?
# erlehmann nothing, it was just an idea. ex falso quodlibet.
# erlehmann thank you for your socratic questioning.
# erlehmann Hixie, something completely different, what does distinguish <title> and the top-most <h1> element?
# Hixie <title> is what ends up in the bookmark if you bookmark the page, in the back button menu or history menu if you navigate to another page, and what ends up in the window caption
# Hixie <h1> is what gets drawn in the content area
# erlehmann Hixie, for the purpose of outlining, can i only have a <title> at the outermost layer? like here: <http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/docs/collaborative-decision-making.html>
# Hixie <title>s don't participate in outline creation
# erlehmann why not?
# Hixie <title> is the text that appears on the index card in the library card index. <h1> is what appears on the book cover.
# erlehmann so <title> is supposedt to be more descriptive, summary-like?
# Hixie yeah. the html spec discusses this some, i think.
# Hixie "The title element represents the document's title or name. Authors should use titles that identify their documents even when they are used out of context, for example in a user's history or bookmarks, or in search results. The document's title is often different from its first heading, since the first heading does not have to stand alone when taken out of context."
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# erlehmann i see.
# erlehmann thx
# @Martin_Cooney coolio - Review of Author hReview for Serious Bloggers - http://www.cooney.com.au/review-of-author-hreview-for-serious-bloggers https://twitter.com/Martin_Cooney/status/368132426272210944/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/368132426272210944)
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# veganstraightedge edited /irc-people (+225) "step 1 toward a more better irc-people page" (view diff)
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# tantek edited /Template:irc_user (+10) "swap the user: and irc nick since the irc-people page did so, add 4th field as dash" (view diff)
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# veganstraightedge edited /Template:irc_user (+157) "step 2 toward a more better irc-people page (tr with h-card for each person in the template)" (view diff)
# veganstraightedge edited /Template:irc_user (-10) "made the irc template one line, bc mediawiki is picking about line breaks and leading whitespace" (view diff)
# veganstraightedge edited /irc-people (+118) "step 3 toward a more better irc-people page (wrapped all the <tr>s in a table)" (view diff)
# veganstraightedge edited /Template:irc_user (+8) "dropped "User:" in visible link text" (view diff)
# veganstraightedge edited /irc-people (-26) "fixed two notes that were displaying wrongly" (view diff)
# 
shaners ok. http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people it's a table with h-cards.
# tantek in the mean time, I'm really digging the simpler/cleaner look of http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people