#microformats 2013-08-18

2013-08-18 UTC
bnvk, tantek and barnabywalters joined the channel
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barnabywalters Having late night thoughts about h-feed
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barnabywalters What are the use cases for wrapping entries in feeds?
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barnabywalters The only one I can think of is having multiple feeds on one page, e.g. Many people have a blog listing and then a feed of recent tweets in a sidebar
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barnabywalters Which creates huge UI and backend challenges further down the chain for subscribers
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barnabywalters E.g. I subscribe to a URL. It has multiple feeds on. I either am given a combination of all the h-entries (which may be undesirable in the eg given above)
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barnabywalters Or a UI to chose which feed(s) I want to subscribe to
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barnabywalters If those feeds don't have ids, then there’s no way to express them as URLs
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barnabywalters meaning that feed readers need to store complex extra state about subscriptions
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tantek barnabywalters - I think we captured a few use-cases on the wiki
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#Use_Cases
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barnabywalters E.g. How to keep track of which unidentifiable h feed(s) are the relevant ones?
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barnabywalters And that those subscriptions cannot be exchanged between people as URLs
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barnabywalters All in all the possibility for nesting and all the nasty complexity which comes with it (as tantek rightly pointed out when I suggested nested h-feeds as a wrapper for comments) seems like a deal breaker
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tantek the use cases on the wiki are sufficient to justify an explicit container of h-entrys with a name - thus an h-feed with a p-name
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tantek what specifically is a deal breaker for what?
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barnabywalters I would contest that <title> already expresses that semantic at a page level
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tantek indeed it does - thus: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#How_do_I_avoid_duplicating_the_page_title
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tantek :)
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barnabywalters tantek: deal breaker for actually consuming h-feed markup in feed readers
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barnabywalters When I was prototyping one it was an immediate wall I ran up against
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barnabywalters And one of the reasons I didn’t get very far — I assumed that being able to consume multiple h-feeds on a page was necessary
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tantek I'm not sure it is
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tantek I think if you just consume the top level h-feed (or just the first one you find), you're fine
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tantek or rather - could you rephrase your problem as a question? :)
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tantek as a "How do I …" question
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tantek or a "What do I do when …"
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barnabywalters Exactly — as soon as you introduce that constraint (one top level h-feed), then h-feed becomes essentially unnecessary as <title> handles the naming use case
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tantek maybe. sometimes people do different things with <title> for weird SEO or browser UI reasons
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barnabywalters “What do I do when a user subscribes to a URL with multiple distinct h-feeds”
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barnabywalters Or multiple nested h-feeds
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barnabywalters (On a similar but tangential note, should comments also be h-cites a la reply contexts?)
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barnabywalters Thus enabling a consumer to just grab all the h-entries on a page regardless of nesting
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tantek yes, comments should likely be citations
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tantek since if a consuming application wants to syndicate them, they should go get the original
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barnabywalters I’m liking how reply contexts and distributed comments are helping solidify exactly what h-entry and h-cite mean
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tantek indeed
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tantek all these pieces are helping clarify solidify each other
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barnabywalters And verify that they're all actually useful
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barnabywalters Which I have not (yet) seen for h-feed
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tantek well sandeep found it useful for his h-feed to Atom conversion service
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tantek which he is using apparently
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tantek I think he's also writing a personal reader
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barnabywalters h-feed works fine as a single, top level wrapper
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barnabywalters So probably the easiest way to deal with multiple h-feeds in a page is just to ignore them and use the first/top level one
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barnabywalters Look for h-feed markup to get feed semantics, then grab all the h-entries regardless of nesting and treat those as the contents
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tantek edited /h-feed (+263) "FAQ : What should a subscriber do with a page with multiple feeds" (view diff)
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tantek I don't know about "regardless of nesting"
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tantek I would just grab all the h-entries in the children array of the h-feed
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tantek or rather, can you express your "probably" assertion as a question (or multiple) ?
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barnabywalters “If I parse a page with the goal of displaying a feed of entries, and it has multiple nested h-feeds, what do I do?”
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barnabywalters Same for multiple top-level h-feeds
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barnabywalters And any combination of the two
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barnabywalters Anyway, I need to sleep. Thanks for helping shape and record my confusion tantek
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@Pafuxu エラー: Missing required field "updated". エラー: Missing required hCard "author". ========================= 気にしない、気にしない…。 (twitter.com/_/status/368933221007781888)
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tantek edited /press (+5786) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Cmscritic|Cmscriti" (view diff)
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tantek edited /glossary () "(-1577) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tan" (view diff)
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tantek edited /faq-fr (+26395) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /glossary-fr (-218) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hAtom () "(-7284) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy" (view diff)
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tantek edited /h-entry (+3213) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /existing-classes (+4165) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[U" (view diff)
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tantek edited /hatom (+6385) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /SEO () "(-7275) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /search-engines () "(-2052) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[Use" (view diff)
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tantek edited /User:AndyMabbett (+576) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Talk]]) to last version by [[Us" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Special:Log/protect () "protected "[[Learn How To Get The Most Out Of Your Home Business]]": stub to block spammers [create=sysop]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Special:Log/protect () "protected "[[Voyance Gratuite]]": stub to block spam [create=sysop]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Category:public_domain_license () "(-1897) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000]] ([[User talk:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|Tal" (view diff)
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tantek Phae, tommorris, heads-up - we've got a weird spammer that is vandalizing existing pages.
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tommorris tantek: thanks, will take a look and help out in a sec
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tommorris wow, they went through the wiki like a dose of salts
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tantek yeah I think I got it all so far - but same spammer popped up again and I stopped it after one vandalism
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barnabywalters edited /h-feed () "(-4173) Undo revision 59675 by [[Special:Contributions/00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000" (view diff)
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