#microformats 2014-11-17
2014-11-17 UTC
KartikPrabhu, Rastus_Vernon, tantek, kez, ChiefRA, pfefferle, chiui, eschnou and pfefferle_ joined the channel
# 
ChiefRA !tell tantek I just realized one of the main obstacles for hListing usage is the lack of implementation examples (real in-code implementation) for the 2-words properties. ex. "item info": which tag should encapsulate all the details like (fn || url || photo || geo || adr) | hCard?
# ChiefRA !tell tantek Should it be exactly class="item info" OR class="item-info". This needs to be defined as it has to keep within all the details of the item.
# tommorris edited /gender-examples (+663) "adding OKCupid's new gender and sexuality options" (view diff)
# tommorris edited /gender-examples (+190) "/* discussion elsewhere */ adding some basic intro-to-trans links" (view diff)
# ChiefRA tommorris I do that as we speak, I've created a second page non-linked in the main Wiki http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions only for related discussions and to step up to 1.0 version, to drop the "draft"
# ChiefRA please have a look if you wish, by comparison with the original hlisting page.
# ChiefRA yeah :) the thing is we need to get ourselves a brainstorming discussion to finish this.
# ChiefRA can we setup such a thing?
# ChiefRA after we finish the 1.0 we can move out to canonicalising it to mf2, but for now, Google started to support the hListing, that's why I'm so keen to finish up this version.
# ChiefRA to be able to pass it on with the latest changes, to be implemneted in Google.
# ChiefRA as for now, there are a few ambiguities on the 1.0 draft which needs to be resolved.
# ChiefRA The thing is, I will give them not only the 1.0 (definitive version) but also real-life examples of websites which are ALREADY using this version.
# ChiefRA they are not up-to-date anymore.
# ChiefRA I tried to open the Match.com example, without success, seems that this website hasn't been updated in a while.
# ChiefRA the thing is, I'll provide enough examples at the end :) As I'll be implementing it within our websites in a matter of days after we finish.
# ChiefRA so there will be plenty of examples, at least from the Real Estate.
# ChiefRA what I need us to do, is to discuss and finish the existing ambiguities.
# ChiefRA Can we get toghether me, you tantek and other guys from here to finish this up?
# ChiefRA I mean do we have a way of schedule a meeting for this?
# ChiefRA tommorris I already did that fpr the past 2 years. That's why I'd like to discuss this. I'm one of the users who do use hListing a lot within Real Estate and I'd like to rezolve the aforementioned issues.
# ChiefRA tommorris I kept a close eye on this matter and I've reached several conclusions, one of the is that the specs are ambiguous that's why people refrain from implementing it, this needs to be discussed.
# ChiefRA tommorris that's why I've asked you if you know a way to setup an on-line meeting to discuss all these problems.
# ChiefRA thanks :)
# ChiefRA It would be great, we definitely need a parser for hListing.
# ChiefRA tommorris where do you want me to place these issues?
# ChiefRA the ones I found so far.
# ChiefRA then http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues
# ChiefRA tommorris ok I'll place there the issues.
# chiefra edited /hlisting-issues (+482) "/* issues */ adding all the recent issues I've found" (view diff)
# tommorris edited /payment-examples (+684) "adding section on bitcoin URL scheme and QR codes" (view diff)
charl joined the channel
# tommorris edited /hlisting (+72) "/* See also */ adding redlink to [[microformats-2]]-backed spec" (view diff)
alanpearce joined the channel
# ChiefRA tommorris ok. I'll add www.sothebysrealty.com as hListing examples.
# ChiefRA it doesn't, I'm working on them :D
# ChiefRA so far, I'm perfecting the format. When it's ready, I'll implement it all over.
# ChiefRA :)
# ChiefRA and there are a lot of Sothebys affiliates websites which have the same hListing, over 100 of them.
# ChiefRA so there are plenty of examples which will go LIVE with the latest format of hListing after we perfect it.
# ChiefRA I'll add the Christies Real Estate too, I've been implementing there too. Also, their affiliates have it.
# ChiefRA well, it's a lot to write, but I'll add first the problems then I'll go into detail of every one.
# ChiefRA tommorris we definitely need a parser/validator for hListing to indicate the possible implementation errors.
# ChiefRA tommorris the thing is h-Listing (mf2 version) I don't think it will be supported by Google... as far as I've asked them about the rest of mf2 and they said they didn't add support for any of them...
# ChiefRA and they don't have any plans in this regard... so based on this statement, I would only worry about the v.1 of those that are already supported.
# ChiefRA ok, now I get it.
# ChiefRA ok then :) we'll brainstorm that.
pfefferle, elux, TallTed, elux_ and tantek joined the channel
alanpearce_ and alanpear_ joined the channel
# 
Loqi tantek: ChiefRA left you a message 5 hours, 49 minutes ago: I just realized one of the main obstacles for hListing usage is the lack of implementation examples (real in-code implementation) for the 2-words properties. ex. "item info": which tag should encapsulate all the details like (fn || url || photo || geo || adr) | hCard?
eschnou joined the channel
# ChiefRA tantek tommorris they showing it in their Google Webmaster Tools on the Structured Markup Data AND the syntax can be verified in their Rich Snippets Tools.
# ChiefRA I have plenty accounts that have this highlighted in Google Webmaster Tools.
# ChiefRA this wasn't happening before, so they do something with it for sure. I failed to determine what so far.
# ChiefRA tommorris I can do something even easier: I can ask one of them what's with it in WMT to get a straight answer.
# ChiefRA tantek, I can do that right now, hold on for 1 minute.
# ChiefRA no, because this is sensitive client data.
# ChiefRA I don't want it publicly listed.
# ChiefRA let me see what I can do to trim out any identifiable info and I'll see.
# ChiefRA I have posted public examples but only for implementation... so far, I couldn't identify any USE of it, but what I'm saying is this:
# ChiefRA I have implemented it in big websites like Sothebys and Christies (see the examples I've posted today in the hListing examples). I need to be able to finish this draft to get full benefits from it.
alanpearce joined the channel
# ChiefRA once we're finished with it and we have all the problems sorted out, I'll be passing this on to Google Team in charge with this, to forther improve their search engine to better recognize this hListing format.
# ChiefRA tommorris I was referring to clarify the actual format a bit, you know what we discussed earlier today, to be able to improve and take full advantage of all properties of the hListing.
# ChiefRA tantek: I'll show you in a second that :)
# ChiefRA tantek: I politely disagree with you.
# ChiefRA that's because we need a format that is used "NOW" for the time being, and then on the future.
# ChiefRA this format is used now by Google so I wish to take advantage from it now. :)
# ChiefRA will be if you help me finish them, as I will pass this on to the Google Team for enhancements of parsing them.
# ChiefRA tantek there are a few things not clear now with hListing. Agree to improve and create the h-Listing, but let's clear the missing points now for the existing format, BEFORE enhancing it.
mko joined the channel
# ChiefRA tantek read please the message I've left through Loqi 15 mins ago here in this channel, to get what I'm saying.
# ChiefRA and that's only one of them.
# ChiefRA I mean I have the capability to improve this microformat and I have the connections now to promote it faster into Google's active search results. All I'm saying is to take advantage of this. :)
# 
tantek ChiefRA it looks like you added them to http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues#issues is that correct?
# ChiefRA tantek correct.
# tantek just making sure - best would be if http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues#issues had the latest
# ChiefRA yup. I hope that too.
# ChiefRA the thing is that Google relies also on real life examples, and I can provide hundreds of them as of now (one week to implement the last versions of it)
# ChiefRA do you get my point now? :)
# ChiefRA tantek tommorris I'll invite you temporary into a new channel, please accept.
# ChiefRA no worries.
# tantek tommorris: since you have a good understanding of microformats2 - could you start http://microformats.org/wiki/h-listing - perhaps based on http://microformats.org/wiki/h-product ?
# ChiefRA tommorris if you want to take a look at how Google sees hlisting let me know.
# ChiefRA tantek: if we're able to fix the missing parts of hlisting as fast as we can (no need of adding new features or smth like this) we will be able to have one more microformat complete and working format to compete the schema.org (beside hCard and the rest)
# ChiefRA the last sentence?
# ChiefRA tantek tommorris ok, I'll add the last ones now on that page to have something to work on.
# chiefra edited /hlisting-issues (+1700) "/* issues */ - added more inconsistencies to bring hListing to a definitive form" (view diff)
# ChiefRA tantek tommorris please have a look at the -issue list.
# ChiefRA tantek my pleasure. We should setup a date to talk about all of these and definitivate them. I can do it even today if both of you agree.
# ChiefRA tommorris :) haha, ok :P we can do it this way then. Do you accept to do that by modifying the temporary page created specifically for this? The http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions (and would it be better to understrike |if possible| the text you wish to remove so for the others to see what has been removed)
# ChiefRA ok then please tell me where I can find the Wiki Diffs for this particular page. I'll work your way as probably is agreed by tantek also.
# ChiefRA tommorris great thing, thanks. I've added all the problems I came uppon on for it, so now the -issues page is complete from my POV.
# ChiefRA one hads-up, I've modified the date on which these issues were added to be able to differentiate between them if later need to reffer to them in particular.
# ChiefRA heads-up*
# ChiefRA I just put 1 day before them, that's it.
# ChiefRA ok then.
# ChiefRA Thanks. So far we're good with what we have.
# ChiefRA tantek tommorris: what I wish from you guys, beside seeing the issues I've raised, is to parse by comparison the actual and the temporary hlisting page to view all the modifications I've done on the temporary page and make the neccesarry adjustments you see fit.
# ChiefRA thanks.
# 
tommorris ChiefRA: on wikis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD works surprisingly well, especially if sane people are applying it. (so should work *better* on microformats.org than on wikipedia)
# ChiefRA tommorris interesting concept, I didn't used this before so I'll take a look and hope to manage it :)
# ChiefRA from now on, I'll try to perform all the changes within one modification, to be easier to follow.
# ChiefRA ok guys GTG, see you in 2 hours. was a nice an productive chat today :)
# ChiefRA got it :) waiting for your changes then as mine were depleted so far :D
alanpearce, alanpearce_, uf-wiki-visitor, chiui, kez_, KartikPrabhu, eschnou and tantek joined the channel