#microformats 2015-08-25

2015-08-25 UTC
tantek, fuzzyhorns, KevinMarks__, KevinMarks_, globbot and ivc joined the channel
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@SBComputerHelp SEO Tips 2015 incorporating Schema and Microformats: https://www.youtube.com/ via @YouTube (twitter.com/_/status/636032568400457729)
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@AllTheTwits is proof-reading microformats book (twitter.com/_/status/636044963365658627)
tommorris, voxpelli, KevinMarks__, kez, eschnou, kez_, tantek, pfefferle, elf-pavlik, adactio and glennjones joined the channel
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@AllTheTwits wanting to spend time on and finish a football fixtures Microformats script (twitter.com/_/status/636156074391924737)
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tantek wat
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Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 5 days, 12 hours ago: value class pattern should work with mf1 date time properties, e.g. http://www.unmung.com/?html=%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22vevent%22%3E%0D%0A%3Ch3+class%3D%22summary%22%3EXYZ+Project+Review%3C%2Fh3%3E%0D%0A%3Cp+class%3D%22description%22%3EProject+XYZ+Review+Meeting%3C%2Fp%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%3ETo+be+held+on+%0D%0A+%3Cspan+class%3D%22dtstart%22%3E%0D%0A++%3Cabbr+class%3D%22value%22+title%3D%221998-03-12%22%3Ethe+12th+of+March%3C%2Fabbr%3E+%0
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tantek yes
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tantek !tell kylewm yes value class pattern should work with mf1 date time properties. your unmung example was cut-off.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm good morning
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 32 minutes ago: yes value class pattern should work with mf1 date time properties. your unmung example was cut-off.
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tantek good day kylewm!
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tantek kylewm: take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues - looks like glennjones added some new issues
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tantek is going to add some comments
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kylewm hopes my comment on kartik's issue doesn't conflict
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tantek nope
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tantek merged
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+496) "comment on a couple of Glenn's issues" (view diff)
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kylewm https://github.com/apache/any23/pull/18
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tantek reads http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/08/extensibility by rhiaro
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tantek cheeky++
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Loqi cheeky has 2 karma
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tantek rhiaro: re: example debate 1 - though we haven't see any volcanoes researchers yet, we have seen people that are interested in listings and products but not for anything social, and have been helping them help move h-listing and h-product forward FWIW
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tantek "linked data people tend to do our due diligence and check for existing terms before we create new ones" HAHAHAHA. rhiaro need I remind you of FOAF again (vs vCard etc)
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tantek "due diligence" oh then you won't mind providing a LINK with DATA to support your assertion of "diligence" ;)
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tantek "really the core tenet of linked data is... everything has a globally unique identifier - a URI.. or, fine, a URL if the 'I' is offputting" -- except for the aformentioned "due diligence" which is really more of a no, you should trust me because I'm an expert
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rhiaro I don't really know what you're asking for a link to.. every discussion/tutorial about creating new terms starts with 'see if there already exists something you can reuse'. That's things now, can't speak for linked data in the 'old days'..
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tantek that "discussion"
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rhiaro I'll google some
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tantek rhiaro: you're obviously much better in this respect
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tantek but this is a very bad habit by LD-advocates as a whole
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tantek lots of claims of "trust us" - very few URLs to back up that asserted "trust"
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aaronpk there should be a rule: on the URL that defines the LD term, there has to be a link to the discussion about that term
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tantek hence https://twitter.com/t/status/590273371180400640
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@t New rule: reject claims by "Linked Data" advocate(s) until they provide *links* (URLs) to actual *data*. #extwebsummit (ttk.me t4ak1) (twitter.com/_/status/590273371180400640)
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rhiaro here's one I made earlier http://rhiaro.github.io/sws/ (3.6 which has failed to line-break from 3.5)
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tantek aaronpk - funny thing, that rule, about having to provide a link to *research* into that object/property, hey, that's part of the microformats process that they complain about as being "too hard"
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek pardon me, I forgot a URL to said part of the microformats process
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tantek like http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Document_Current_Behavior
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tantek and http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Document_Previous_Formats
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tantek frankly I actually don't care if LD people find it too hard to figure out mf2 extensibllity. the fact that they're focusing on extensibility first, and shipping things second, means they're doomed to fail anyway
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tantek s/shipping things/shipping things with *widely accepted existing vocabs*
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Loqi tantek meant to say: frankly I actually don't care if LD people find it too hard to figure out mf2 extensibllity. the fact that they're focusing on extensibility first, and shipping things with *widely accepted existing vocabs* second, means they're doomed to fail anyway
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rhiaro https://github.com/jamesaoverton/obo-tutorial/blob/master/docs/using-and-reusing.md https://linkingresearch.wordpress.com/2013/11/11/how-to-properly-publish-a-vocabulary-or-ontology-in-the-web-part-6-of-6/ http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/about
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rhiaro I think a lot of the shipping happens outside of your areas of interest
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rhiaro Particularly in research and stuff
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tantek extensibility is supposed to be hard, or at least harder than finding and re-using existing vocabularies
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tantek rhiaro: no doubt - same thing happened with the explosion of made-up XML vocabs in the late 1990s and 2000s
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tantek and where are all those made-up domain specific vocabs now?
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tantek rhiaro: https://github.com/jamesaoverton/obo-tutorial/blob/master/docs/using-and-reusing.md is the most thorough docs on this kind of things I have ever seen, impressed that there's mention of e.g. *Community* to maintain a vocabulary
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tantek those are good sources for research
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rhiaro linked data people aren't actually all impractical antisocial crazies :)
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rhiaro I know you don't want to believe that..
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tantek no it's actually relief to know there's more sanity out there than suspected
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tantek perhaps it's just exposure to too many non-implementing crazies through W3C :/
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tantek edited /previous-formats (+435) "search other communities for pre-existing formats/vocabularies too with a couple of search links found from links from rhiaro" (view diff)
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tantek hey rhiaro do you have the ability to add to http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs ?
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tantek e.g. http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs?q=recipe could use a reference to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe
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rhiaro I think LOV is centrally run, they take suggestions but they add stuff themselves
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tantek do they have a form somewhere where you can submit, you know, a LINK to some additional vocabulary? ;)
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rhiaro http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/suggest
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tantek wonders if Linked Open Vocabularies accepts Links to Open Vocabularies
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tantek #sorrynotsorry
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rhiaro literally a form for a link :)
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rhiaro with a shiny pdf to help you...
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tantek LOL: org.apache.jena.riot.RiotException: Failed to determine the triples content type: (URI=file:///usr/local/lov/lovnode/http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe : stream=text/html : hint=null) at org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.process(RDFDataMgr.java:755) at org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.parse(RDFDataMgr.java:652) at org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.read(RDFDataMgr.java:211) at org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.read(RDFDataMgr.java:104) at
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tantek org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.read(RDFDataMgr.java:95) at org.apache.jena.riot.RDFDataMgr.loadModel(RDFDataMgr.java:331) at org.lov.LovBotVocabAnalyser.analyse(LovBotVocabAnalyser.java:58) at org.lov.LovBotVocabAnalyser.analyseVocabURI(LovBotVocabAnalyser.java:48) at org.lov.cli.Suggest.exec(Suggest.java:71) at arq.cmdline.CmdMain.mainMethod(CmdMain.java:101) at arq.cmdline.CmdMain.mainRun(CmdMain.java:63) at arq.cmdline.CmdMain.mainRun(CmdMain.java:5
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tantek at org.lov.cli.Suggest.main(Suggest.java:27)
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tantek well alrighty then
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tantek what a riot indeed
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rhiaro oh cool, they try to parse the rdf from the vocabulary already
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rhiaro s/already/immediately
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: oh cool, they try to parse the rdf from the vocabulary immediately
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rhiaro guess they don'tn consider an occasion where there is no rdf :p
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rhiaro I can go add some rdfa into the mf wiki if you like :D
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tantek what is it that they're looking for?
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rhiaro an rdf representation of the vocabulary
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rhiaro that thing where the URI to a vocabulary/term is supposed to resolve to a human and machine readable version
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rhiaro their machines are trying to read it
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tantek alright, is the "Recommendations for vocabulary metadata description" PDF a giant troll?
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tantek what happens if I submit that...
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rhiaro I dunno it's kind of hilarious
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rhiaro I guess just somebody couldn't be bothered to htmlize that document, and then it got forgotten about
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tantek or even RDFize it
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weihnachtsbaumzentrale edited /code-tools (+94) (view diff)
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rhiaro or both
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tantek as in have it "resolve to a human and machine readable version" :P
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tantek hey that's not an XFN creator translation
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tantek edited /code-tools (-94) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Weihnachtsbaumzentrale|Weihnachtsbaumzentrale]] ([[User talk:Weihnachtsbaumzentrale|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Bayerwald-Weihnachtsbaeume|Bayerwald-Weihnachtsbaeume]]" (view diff)
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rhiaro that pdf even contains instructions to make documentation human and machine readable
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tantek edited /xfn-brainstorming (+137) "/* met and wants to meet */ XFN has rel=met" (view diff)
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tantek edited /code-tools (-68) "rm spam Undo revision 64899 by [[Special:Contributions/Bayerwald-Weihnachtsbaeume|Bayerwald-Weihnachtsbaeume]] ([[User talk:Bayerwald-Weihnachtsbaeume|Talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek edited /linked-data (+375) "ask for citations, link don't trust to the layer cake with trust on top" (view diff)