#microformats 2015-11-08

2015-11-08 UTC
fuzzyhorns, KartikPrabhu and Calli joined the channel
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@OshikanRelation RT https://twitter.com/scriptzteam/status/663171132317659136 IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663171374979117056)
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@seoshake RT @OshikanRelation: RT https://twitter.com/scriptzteam/status/663171132317659136 IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663171466599493632)
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@seoshake RT @scriptzteam: IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663189082311434240)
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@OshikanRelation RT https://twitter.com/scriptzteam/status/663197532147884032 IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663197722527326212)
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@seoshake RT @scriptzteam: IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663309873560625156)
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@seoshake RT @SmallMarketi: RT https://twitter.com/scriptzteam/status/663412173234900992 IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (twitter.com/_/status/663413053527040001)
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Calli Anyone feel like educating me? I'm kind of curious about MF2 vs HTML microdata (HTMLMD) (By HTMLMD, I mean both itemscope/itemprop and rel w/ article-scoping for author, bookmark)
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Calli In sites I look at I see HTMLMD in use, but not MF2 (I know that people here will have MF2 data in your pages, but more generally I don't see too much)
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Calli I understand that MF2 vs MF1 was to make parsing rules more general...
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Calli ...but HTMLMD has general parsing rules
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Calli So is there some advantage to MF2 parsing rules over HTMLMD?
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Calli Or is there some advantage to MF2's use of class instead of itemscope/itemprop?
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Calli Assuming that the MF vocabulary offers things not in other vocabularies, I'm wondering why MF2 isn't a vocabulary that uses itemscope/itemprop?
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Calli Thanks for any info you can offer.
Calli joined the channel
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kevinmarks Calli: mf2 is easier to publish and has more parsers
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kevinmarks have a look at http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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Calli Hi Kevin. Thanks for replying. I'll look at the link.
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kevinmarks (also the Schema folks seem to have deprecated microdata for JOSN-LD islands now)
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Calli This is interesting. I'm really trying to get at the difference between the MF2 and HTML parsing/serialization (rather than the MF2 vs schema vocabulary differences)
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Calli What makes MF2 easier to publish than HTMLMD?
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kevinmarks look at how less verbose it is in that example
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Calli Something to do with CMS limitations?
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KartikPrabhu i don't see the need to introduce new HTML attributes for everything
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Calli Oh. So implied properties and nesting is a big part of the diff?
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KartikPrabhu HTML gives heirarchy and classes tell you the "type" of element so why invent itemprop/itemscope
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Calli Are implied properties dependent on vocab or part of general parsing rules?
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KartikPrabhu implied props greatly simplify writing mf2
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KartikPrabhu general parsing rules
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Calli KartikPrabhu: Thx. Will look at the parsing rules again. In terms of "new attributes", as far as I am concerned HTML5 is spec'd, released and the attributes exist, so they don't feel new. ;-)
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KartikPrabhu e.g. <article class="h-entry">Title</article> gives same mf2 as <article class="h-entry><span class="p-name">Title</span></article>
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KartikPrabhu by "new" I mean for the pubisher to learn
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KartikPrabhu I really don't need to learn how itemprops/itemscope work to have "data" in my HTML
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KartikPrabhu so mf2 is easier to learn and write
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kevinmarks well, microdata is out of html5
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KartikPrabhu also that ^
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Calli oh yeah - ok - I've been fooled by old specs
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KartikPrabhu to me it seems people have given up on microdata for RDFa and now for JSONLD
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Calli But: I see content that uses itemprop/itemscope and scoped-rels - and it matches the HTML drafts or whatever
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KartikPrabhu people don't really update their sites to match latest HTML5 spec do they?
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aaronpk I wonder what is going to come after JSON-LD islands
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KartikPrabhu Revenge of the XML
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KartikPrabhu errr sorry WebComponents
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Calli So comparing microdata vs MF2 (serialization), the main advantage is implied props? Anything else I've missed?
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KartikPrabhu Calli: IMO the main difference in ease of publishing rather than what happens in the parsing/serialisation
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KartikPrabhu and implied props is a huge part of that
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aaronpk also it's just less verbose
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KartikPrabhu mainly due to implied props right?
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Calli Yeah - I'm calling out "serialization" to distinguish it from "vocabulary".
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Calli Don't mean to imply that the main concern is parser developers rather than content creators
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aaronpk the other main advantage is mf2 has an active community vs one that has moved on to other methods of embedding data :)
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KartikPrabhu :)
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Calli Yeah - the community seems really great!
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Calli Still I feel compelled to give you my perspective as an outsider/newcomer: if I look at pages I'm interested in extracting data from, I see microdata some MF1, no MF2, and no RDFa. I see a draft HTML spec that describes parsing rules that match data that I see in pages I'm interested in. I also see JSON+LD.
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KartikPrabhu If your goal is to parse specific pages then you'd have to parse whatever they provide
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Calli Yeah. Which means I need microdata parsing and scoped-rel parsing.
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Calli Be great if I only needed that right?
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Calli So I'm trying to understand what are the differences and why they exist?
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KartikPrabhu I have never looked at microdata parsing so can't tell if there is more to it than that
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Calli Oh. I had another question about article vs h-entry
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Calli Ever considered just replacing h-entry with <article>?
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aaronpk most of the new usage of microformats2 has been in the social web space
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Calli aaronpk: yeah - that stuff is new to me and looks very cool
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KartikPrabhu Calli: mf2 does not assume that a given HTML tag corresponds to some microformat
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aaronpk Calli: one of the goals of mf2 is to not dictate which html elements people use, so the ability to use h-entry on things other than <article> is good, and also means smaller spec with fewer edge cases
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Calli makes sense
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Calli And how stable is the MF2 parsing spec?
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aaronpk the guts of it hasn't changed in a long time. there are a couple things in the works right now but it's things like how to add things like language attributes
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Calli thanks