#microformats 2016-07-12

2016-07-12 UTC
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gregorlove edited /microformats2 (-79) "revert spam" (view diff)
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gregorlove edited /hreview-aggregate (-150) "removed gutscheinchamp.de; no apparent hreview-aggregate" (view diff)
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gRegorLove !tell tantek I've reverted spam from these users, if you want to block them: Reniemarie, Kachuy, Oulman
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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petermolnar morning; question on u-photo: can a u-photo only be an <img>? The reason for asking is that adaptive (src-set) u-photo imgs sound problematic and using an <a> href as u-photo might be more useful to present a large-resolution photo
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Loqi morning!
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pfefferle I would say yes, because microformats2 uses generic parsing, so u- can be a link, an img or an oject http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2#naming_conventions_for_generic_parsing
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petermolnar good
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aaronpk has there been any talk of returning img alt text in an explicit property rather than including it in the name/content value?
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160712153839333
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: none that i have heard of, but in that instance, isn't that the "value" version?
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aaronpk in my example, there's no association between the alt text of the image and the image URL
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aaronpk in this example, the alt text is not in the parsed result at all http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160712155509455
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aaronpk which means a consumer of that post is unable to render the alt text for accessibility given just the parsed result
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KevinMarks_ Seems that we'd need to define an object to put them into
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KevinMarks_ There was an attempt at hmedia before iirc
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aaronpk i'll open an issue on the microformats repo since we're using github for that now :)
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KevinMarks_ Hm, no that's not quite right. It has a name, but not an alt.
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KevinMarks_ http://microformats.org/wiki/hmedia#Images
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KevinMarks_ It didn't get much adoption.
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KevinMarks_ See also http://microformats.org/wiki/figure-examples
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aaronpk it's almost like the value of the photo property should be able to be an object, like how e- things end up turning into an object with {"html":"...","value":"..."}
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aaronpk but I don't want to jump to conclusions :)
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KevinMarks_ Well, you could mark it up as a h-photo now and make that happen.
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aaronpk ha
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KevinMarks_ The question is if we should imply that.
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aaronpk that's probably a bit overkill
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aaronpk also ... h-photo? is that a thing?
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KevinMarks_ No, but you can make it a thing with markup.
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gRegorLove h-x-photo?
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KevinMarks_ Not sure if it should be a thing - hence my precedent citing
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aaronpk that ends up being a little beefy http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160712161624238
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KevinMarks_ Right, but it's not a magic new property
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aaronpk it is as far as consumers are concerned, cause they'd be expecting just a string right now
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KevinMarks_ The trickiness is that name, caption and alt are different things
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aaronpk also kind of funny that the implied parsing rules make that property end up being "photo" instead of "url" like you might expect
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KevinMarks_ Also you are close to the longdesc pit of despair there
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KevinMarks_ Doing -examples and -brainstorming may be the way to go
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aaronpk https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2
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gRegorLove 404, weird. Even when I click from the issues page.
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aaronpk github is having issues right now
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aaronpk their DB replication is lagging
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tantek aaronpk: saw the microformats2 parsing issue. good catch
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 14 hours, 37 minutes ago: I've reverted spam from these users, if you want to block them: Reniemarie, Kachuy, Oulman
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tantek thanks gRegorLove
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tantek we may have to do special treatment of <img> tags and any other than have alt text (maybe <area>?)
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voxpelli aaronpk: just commented on the issue – it's very much similar to the brainstorming around lang="" which I've been pushing a few times :)
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aaronpk interesting
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gRegorLove There's experimental lang support pending a merge: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/97
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tantek gRegorLove: where is the spec issue for that experimental lang support? or is that an extension?
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gRegorLove http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Parse_language_information
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aaronpk should we move that to a github thread?
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voxpelli aaronpk: that would be great!
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tantek not if it's resolved
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tantek I thought it was resolved?
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aaronpk if it's resolved it shouldn't be on -brainstorming right? :D
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gRegorLove Not sure if it was on parsing-issues, haven't checked.
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gRegorLove looks
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tantek aaronpk: oh right
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tantek we didn't look through brainstorming at IWS
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tantek only issues
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aaronpk ahh
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tantek so that would be a no
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tantek it was not resolved
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voxpelli just noticed tantek's addition there: "Additionally: consider the same for "id" attributes (use-case: rel=feed..." – so alt="" is the third discovered use case probably
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tantek voxpelli: no alt is different
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tantek all elements have id and lang attributes (potentially)
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tantek very few (2? img area) elements have alt atttribute (potentially)
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tantek same solution may work, yet worth considering that difference
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gRegorLove tantek: Hope I didn't get too far ahead of the process. I don't think I mentall distinguished -brainstorming from -issues. I was in a productive mood with php-mf2 updates so added lang parsing after #indieweb discussion.
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voxpelli true, how do eg. video and audio handle it?
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gRegorLove s/mentall/mentally/
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voxpelli gRegorLove: I think lang="" is at the stage where it needs to be tried out and have experienced gathered – hence good to have it as an option in a couple of libraries, but probably behind a feature flag
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voxpelli oh, to support alt-representations of video and audio one would have to deal with fallback content that can contain html
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aaronpk the other thing the w3c a11y group mentioned was close captions for videos
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voxpelli ok, so this isn't like lang="" but rather a case of fallback content for embedded content, right? https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#fallback-content
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voxpelli it could probably use a top level attribute on the same level as "html", "value" and probable future "id" and "lang" is and use either alt="" or textContent depending on what type of tag with fallback content it is?
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tantek gRegorLove: totally ok to prototype things in pull requests like that, in fact, that's a great way to prove out brainstorming
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tantek aaronpk re: videos, does micropub support video uploads yet?
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voxpelli tantek: yes, ownyourgram has been doing exports of videos :)
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk for quite a while actually
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tantek alt is well accepted/understand in HTML, whereas close captions for videos are not in the HTML (or rarely so), or are separate from the HTML
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tantek so a separate step for close captions for videos may make sense
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voxpelli Close captions are also always the same for a video while fallback content may vary depending on where an image/video is included
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@JamieKnight @netmag microformats, technorati and scripts to export hCards into vCards :) (twitter.com/_/status/752953423109193728)
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@kevinmarks @JamieKnight @netmag microformats are doing fine. Technorati not so much. (twitter.com/_/status/752966566170329088)
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