#microformats 2017-11-21

2017-11-21 UTC
[manton], webchat45, webchat369, [miklb], KartikPrabhu, tantek, [jackysee], webchat35, [pfefferle], nitot, [kevinmarks], adactio and webchat167 joined the channel
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webchat167 #stripe
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[keithjgrant] @tanktek I drew up a couple codepens to illustrate the questions I've run into
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[keithjgrant] https://codepen.io/keithjgrant/pen/WXzGxp
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[keithjgrant] https://codepen.io/keithjgrant/pen/GOxqbK
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[keithjgrant] I'd wager others have already dealt with the first issue. I may just be misunderstanding something
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: I think aaronpk ran into the first one.
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sknebel [keithjgrant]++
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Loqi keithjgrant has 1 karma in this channel (15 overall)
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KartikPrabhu For the second one you could wrap the entire comment in a <div> and make the comments into grid containers
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sknebel but then each of them is it's own grid, and picks the widths independently?
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: aah I see. yes
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[kevinmarks] You can put the url around the avatar, and use alt for the name so that is the h-card
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[keithjgrant] Oh cool. So a 'p-name' on an <img> refers to the alt?
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[keithjgrant] On the grid issue, hopefully subgrid & the level 2 spec will mature soon and present a better way
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: sknebel: wrapping each comment with a <div class="comment"> and setting it to "display: contents" works. However I think only FF supports this for now
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]++ for documenting these problems
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sknebel [keithjgrant]: yes, alt-text works for p- (http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing#parsing_a_p-_property for all the details). not sure that's an appropriate alt text though (especially if you have the name written out next to it), but that's a question for someone with more a11y knowledge (Zegnat?)
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: yes p-name on img will pick up the alt. But that would have accesibility issues as the comment-author name will be announced twice on screen-readers (I think)
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Zegnat Yes, it will be announced twice. You could theoretically block the author name text from being read with aria-hidden though. But I am not sure you really want to go to that trouble
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[keithjgrant] I think Chrome added display: contents also. That might be the way to go, with a reasonable column width hard-coded as fallback for other browsers
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: yes using @supports should be good here
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Zegnat I’d almost be more inclined to just add a <data class="u-photo"> within the h-card and not try to force extra semantics on the IMG element
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: yes. that sounds better. But also "hidden data" problem
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Zegnat Using the alt tag for p-name is, in a way, also hidden data imho
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sknebel yeah, both alt= and data are hidden, but seems hard to avoid
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KartikPrabhu true
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Zegnat Especially since the name is right next to it.
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Zegnat So either way you are duplicating data (either IMG URL or name text)
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Zegnat And I would rather not overload the IMG element
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Zegnat I am not actually sure what the recommended alt text for display pictures is these days. But I bet there is one. Better off sticking with that
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: for purely presentational images (which this would be ) it is alt=""
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Zegnat I wouldn’t say the photo’s of people’s faces are decorative
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KartikPrabhu I would if the name is right next to it
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KartikPrabhu if it were only an image I would put the name as alt
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Zegnat I once read an article by a screenreader user who said alt="" is very annoying for these things because people around them would refer to images. And even if they couldn’t see it, they wanted to know the image was there.
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Zegnat Which is why I think how much a display picture of a person counts as purely decorative and not-for-the-user is debatable.
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Zegnat But again, would need to find someone who wrote about the topic to know the current best practice. Don’t have it at my fingertips
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sknebel so …alt="avatar of"> Erwin Müller ? mh
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[keithjgrant] I wish there was a way to say the mf of element X is associated with the h-* defined by element Y. Kind of like a <label>’s for attribute can reference an arbitrary <input> on the page.
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: you are getting into Schema-type stuf now! :P
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[keithjgrant] What's that?
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Zegnat alt="" is probably right, upon scrolling through some quick resources. As any description of the person’s display picture would offer redundant information to the text right next to it (their name), and for redundancy reasons alt="" is apparently fine. See e.g. https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decision-tree/ and https://webaim.org/techniques
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Zegnat /alttext/
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KartikPrabhu wonders if alt="name" with role="presentation" works?
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[keithjgrant] Zegnat++
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@Noith_CA hentry （マークアップ: http://microformats.org） 構造化データエラー が出たときの対処方法 http://column.noith.com/hentry-error/?utm_source=ReviveOldPost&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ReviveOldPost (twitter.com/_/status/933001585914871809)
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@bloggermin Blogger SEO: Microformats http://blgs.co/997ebk https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPKweNoW0AIJvwo.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/933002107367624704)
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Zegnat BTW, [keithjgrant], I know some people don’t like doing this but you don’t have to use an h-card on the h-entry and can instead just use u-author
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[keithjgrant] Good to know. Thx
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Zegnat So then you only need to be able to nest that one URL somewhere in the h-entry. There is some discussion about the authorship algorithm that might then even allow matching an h-card *within the current document* if it has the same u-url.
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Zegnat So you could have h-card outside of the h-entry, have u-author on h-entry match the u-url on the h-card, and some parsers will pick that up no problem
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Zegnat I believe X-Ray does it that way right now (possibly, maybe, discussion pending, ... ;) )
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aaronpk I thought that was all solidified in the authorship algorithm?
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aaronpk XRay implements that
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sknebel authorship does not look for h-cards on the same page
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sknebel if they are not the author property
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sknebel [keithjgrant]'s example also looked like possibly comment markup to me, where there'd be many entries with differing authors on a page
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[keithjgrant] Yeah. Both my examples came up while working on comments
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aaronpk oh, just a dangling h-card?
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sknebel see the codepens above - markup examples where fitting h-card under the h-entry wasn't easily possible
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aaronpk on my own site i've solved that by using a hidden element to set the u-author property inside the h-entry
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aaronpk just to link the two together for the authorship algorithm
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sknebel so it goes into "fetch their homepage" mode instead of getting the info locally
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sknebel I think that was what zegnat suggested: if there is an h-card in the current document that can provide details, use that instead of fetching an additional document
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aaronpk no, I also have an h-card on the page, but setting the u-author property tells the authorship algorithm to use the on-page h-card
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aaronpk that's 7.4 right now https://indieweb.org/authorship#How_to_determine
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sknebel right, still fetches the other doc
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sknebel that was the discussion point
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aaronpk no it doesn't
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sknebel it does, because 7.1-3 come before 7.4
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sknebel it goes first checking if there is an h-card on the linked page, and then falls back to the current one
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Zegnat This is a great usecase for looking for h-card on the same page *before* fetching the external resource BTW
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aaronpk okay yeah that's what I was saying about moving 7.4 up to the first part of 7, because fetching the URL should be the last resort
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Zegnat Should document this ...
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aaronpk but as written, step 7.4 ends up using the h-card that's already on the page anyway
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aaronpk not the one at the author URL
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sknebel only if there is no h-card at the author url
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sknebel Zegnat: some start of that under https://indieweb.org/authorship#Other_theoretical (might even be by you)
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sknebel so you're right, I forgot 7.4 can happen at the end, but it really happens at the end
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sknebel he, yes, Zegnat the last edit to the page was by you
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Zegnat Yes, that was me
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@JDRedding hCalendar Creator http://microformats.org/code/hcalendar/creator (twitter.com/_/status/933074047813943299)
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@JDRedding hCalendar Creator http://microformats.org.ridder.co/DnlzYq (twitter.com/_/status/933074052117385218)
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yufanisa edited /irc (+30) "/* Quick Start */" (view diff)
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schmarty tantek: ^^ spam
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schmarty edited /irc (-30) "Undo revision 66618 by [[Special:Contributions/Yufanisa|Yufanisa]] ([[User talk:Yufanisa|Talk]])" (view diff)
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schmarty reverted, but could us a block for that user.
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