#microformats 2018-03-21

2018-03-21 UTC
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu
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@gumnos @TallBlondeGuy @IgnoreIntuition @AlexCastroR12 @ThePracticalDev Bits of it have grown up in select areas. Google's crawler used to (still does?) identify certain taggings and microformats for things like prices, ratings, contact information, etc. But it is indeed a languishing area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microformat (twitter.com/_/status/976288351664967680)
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aaronpk wow, i have never seen "microformat" used in the singular
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@overcaffeinated @RodBegbie @waferbaby ... at about this time there was a lot of noise about microformats *replacing* RSS! Ohboy we all had a good laugh about that! As Tantek would say: these ideas are not contrary to each other! Fun times. But then came Atom, and don’t get me started!... (twitter.com/_/status/976303007087259649)
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aaronpk oh dear
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KartikPrabhu fight fight fight
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tantek wait which side am I on? lol
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you can referee if you'd like ;)
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tantek looking now for the blog posts that mention many things
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tantek there was one recently
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tantek found it https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20180314144847
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Loqi [Eli Mellen] A year with the IndieWeb
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@t @overcaffeinated @RodBegbie @waferbaby #indieweb folks choose that which meets needs eg: https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20180314144847 #IndieAuth #Micropub #Webmention #RSS #Microformats and https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/961794239163068416. My site #hfeed #Atom. Simple building blocks enable ... http://tantek.com/t4tW5 (twitter.com/_/status/976339994121039872)
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tantek hows that aaronpk, KartikPrabhu ?
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KartikPrabhu we'll see how the fight goes ;)
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tantek who's fighting? :)
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KartikPrabhu no one's fighting? boooooooooring :P
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing (+155) "edits which complete resolution of issues #31, #30, #29, #28. consensus on all including 2+ implementers, and each have been prototyped in mf2py" (view diff)
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tantek if that looks good, I'll leave it to the issue filers to confirm that reflects their need and the issue resolution, and close the individual issues accordingly
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KartikPrabhu ooo 1+ vendor prefixes!
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KartikPrabhu so h-p3k-p6k-entry is allowed?
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tantek did I typo that
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tantek hah no re-read :P
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KartikPrabhu the current mf2py implmentation allows exactly 1 vendor prefix
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tantek series of 1+ lowercase a-z or numbers
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tantek i.e. <code>[0-9a-z]+</code>
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tantek followed by '-'
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tantek so that spec language also only allows one vendor prefix
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tantek all of which is parenthetical inside *an optional vendor prefix*
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tantek so not sure how you can misread that as "1+ vendor prefixes"
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KartikPrabhu i read that as "1+, lowercase or numbers"
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KartikPrabhu so 1+ meaning one or more
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KartikPrabhu but you are right
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KartikPrabhu that looks good to me
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Zegnat Ah did stuff get resolved?! Can't wait to review!
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat : yes review and also close the issues if resolved
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Zegnat As soon as my morning tea is at my side. Having a hard time getting started today
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KartikPrabhu tea++
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing (+9) "reword slightly to indicate 1+ characters, not prefixes" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ^^^ does that help?
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tantek Zegnat, issues 28-31
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tantek you have a few minutes to review the spec edits before I go to sleep :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: now I can't read it wrong in my head :P
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Zegnat I should get a bedside computer to check things. Almost on GitHub now. Tea in hand.
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Loqi definitely
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Zegnat Is there a reason we keep source order for rels?
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Zegnat tantek ^^^
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KartikPrabhu for the actual urls that seems fine
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KartikPrabhu for example if you want to pick the first URL that has a rel=author
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Zegnat I mean the specific `rels` array
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Zegnat Nested under a URL
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KartikPrabhu is that doc ordered?
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Zegnat unless “unioning” sets somehow changes order, yes
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Zegnat “set the value of that "rels" key to an array of all unique items in the set of rel values unioned with the current array value of the "rels" key”
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@Noith_CA hentry （マークアップ: http://microformats.org） 構造化データエラー が出たときの対処方法 http://column.noith.com/hentry-error/?utm_source=ReviveOldPost&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ReviveOldPost (twitter.com/_/status/976357456551882752)
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Zegnat That does keep them in source order by my reading
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KartikPrabhu set is unordered
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KartikPrabhu no "source order" is specified
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Zegnat that’s deceptive, because HTML parsers stick to source order for sets. Also as we said, we can’t have unordered output as all JSON output is ordered.
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tantek the array of URLs for a rel is deliberately ordered yes because each of those is from a different element, which has document source order semantics
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KartikPrabhu oh!
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Zegnat Yes, but I am talking about the `rels`array, which only contains the rel values per URL, tantek
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: tantek is saying that those have doc order semantics too
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KartikPrabhu the first rel specified for a given URL
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KartikPrabhu in the doc
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Zegnat Surely <a href="#" rel="me bookmark"></a> and <a href="#" rel="bookmark me"></a> should result in the same thing?
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tantek yes
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KartikPrabhu they will
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Zegnat Currently those two things parse differently, I believe
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Zegnat because the array in ["rel-urls"]["#"]["rels"] will keep source order
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Zegnat So the first will be ["me", "bookmark"], and the second ["bookmark", "me"].
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KartikPrabhu no! Zegnat
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KartikPrabhu but <a rel="bookmark" href="example"> <a rel="me" href="example"> is different from the reverse doc order
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tantek ah I see the detail you're referring to I think
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KartikPrabhu first one gives a ['bookmark', 'me'] while the second gives reverse order
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Zegnat It isn’t in the rels array ... the rels array (nested under "example") should only tell you what relation that URL has to the current doc
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tantek KartikPrabhu: in that case the order doesn't matter
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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Zegnat and that relation doesn’t change with multiple A elements spread throughout the source
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Zegnat That’s why my issue was about the type *and* rels array
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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tantek just the last step of rel parsing needs a minor adjustment
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tantek Zegnat, remind me issue # rather than "my issue"? you filed a few :)
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Zegnat And there is only one rels array, specifically ["rel-urls"][$url]["rels"]. I am not talking about all arrays that have to do with rel parsing
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Zegnat https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/29
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Loqi [Zegnat] #29 Define the order of items any time an array is used in the parsed output.
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tantek yeah just missed it
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tantek editing
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KartikPrabhu hmm ok will think about it for mf2py tomorrow
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tantek it's last step of rel parsing
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Zegnat yep, last step of rel parsing unions all sets together, but it never specifies an order for the resulting array (and we need order because JSON)
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tantek on it
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Zegnat :)
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Zegnat Otherwise, change for vendor prefix support looks good, alphabetical sorting change on types looks good too
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing (+24) "rels array for a particular URL should also be sorted alphabetically to remove any artificial ordering, part of issue #29" (view diff)
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tantek thanks for the review
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Zegnat Reviews full changes once more: http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=66724&oldid=66695
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Zegnat ...
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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Zegnat LGTM tantek!
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Zegnat tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 14 karma in this channel (425 overall)
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi kartikprabhu has 19 karma in this channel (186 overall)
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Zegnat gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 25 karma in this channel (225 overall)
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Zegnat Thanks for all the quick iterating! Now I can finally *close* some issues instead of just opening them :D
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tantek yay that should at least fix a few things
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek hopefully that enables new releases of parsers? or are we still waiting on spec issues for parser releases?
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tantek I know the vendor prefix one was affecting aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu mf2py release is currently stuck on ownership on the python package thing
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Zegnat tantek, if you haven’t headed for bed yet, could you please close https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/28 ? I can’t, because that wasn’t one I opened
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Loqi [gRegorLove] #28 Allow numbers in vendor prefixes
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Zegnat should petition for access to the parsing repo
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tantek I'll leave it to gRegorLove if he's satisfied :)
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Zegnat All the others have now been closed with links to the spec updates
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Zegnat Just in time too, running low on tea again.
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Zegnat stumbles of to find breakfast and more tea
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parlaybola edited /get-started () "(-3627)" (view diff)
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zegnat edited /get-started (+3627) "Undo revision 66725 by [[Special:Contributions/Parlaybola|Parlaybola]] ([[User talk:Parlaybola|Talk]]) - spam" (view diff)
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dagototo edited /get-started () "(-3226)" (view diff)
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sknebel Zegnat: do that again^^^
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[kevinmarks] Html5lib has a "sort attributes" option - they are normally in arbitrary order. Not sure about spaces separated values in attributes
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Zegnat html5lib is right to stick to source order, that’s what WHATWG defines for most of these things.
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zegnat edited /get-started (+3226) "Undo revision 66727 by [[Special:Contributions/Dagototo|Dagototo]] ([[User talk:Dagototo|Talk]]) - spam" (view diff)
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Zegnat Hahahaha, that was the best recaptcha I ever had to do
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Loqi rofl
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Zegnat https://i.imgur.com/0QgqxV6.png
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Zegnat And yes, that let me post
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sknebel heh
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sknebel we'll se what happens in 10 days...
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[kevinmarks] if you parse with html5lib and output html again, the attributes will likely change order
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Zegnat [kevinmarks], hmm, that sounds almost like a bug. I seem to recall the HTML parsing algo specifically keeping source order when converting to the DOM tree against that
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Zegnat But I might be misremembering
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Zegnat tantek, who do we show this screenshot to to get the microformats wiki updated? https://i.imgur.com/0QgqxV6.png
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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tantek so what happens when it shuts down?
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KartikPrabhu spof
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tantek KartikPrabhu: not helpful
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KartikPrabhu I am guessing you edits are no longer going to work
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Zegnat Or this is going to displayed then still
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Zegnat Note that I was able to edit by writing the shutdown text in the field.
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Zegnat If that stays the same, bots will just always enter that and you will have no protection from the captcha
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KartikPrabhu lol!
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Zegnat Oh. “Any calls to the v1 API will not work after March 31, 2018.” So I guess it isn’t going to allow anything to go through anymore?
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Zegnat Per https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/docs/faq#what-happens-to-recaptcha-v1
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: yeah that ia my guess. nothing goes through
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tantek so no new external links?
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tantek that'll block the little spam we get now ;)
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Zegnat If that’s the only thing that triggers it.
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Zegnat Or does it also trigger if there are external links on the page you want to edit?
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tantek *new* links
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tantek read the microcopy
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tantek in your own screenshot :P
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Zegnat Alright. I guess the spam reverts I do count as new links because they aren’t in the latest version of the page
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sknebel yep
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gRegorLove aaronpk, Did you change your vendor prefix to "pk"? Any URLs with "p3k" examples?
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aaronpk I changed them to pk- because I couldn't parse my own site!
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aaronpk I'll change them back once the parser is updated and released tho
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gRegorLove Understood, just checking if there was an example I could put in the issue. I'm working on the fix for php-mf2 :)
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gRegorLove I'll make a simple one based on your markup
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aaronpk you could use a web.archive.org link from one of those pages 😂
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gRegorLove Oh yeah, heh
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tantek lol
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gRegorLove php.microformats.io needs to be updated to latest php-mf2
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: here is a test I wrote for mf2py https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/experimental/test/examples/class_names_format.html
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gRegorLove Thanks!
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KartikPrabhu and here is the expected output checks, sorry hardcoded in python https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/691475feb8c71b87f4c82071395db9c78f494748/test/test_parser.py#L254-L266
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KartikPrabhu oops should update those for hyphen checks
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KartikPrabhu does that while waiting for DNS propagation
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gRegorLove Issues filed for php-mf2. Will work on vendor prefix PR later today.
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tantek gRegorLove++ great!
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Loqi gregorlove has 26 karma in this channel (226 overall)
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: new test checks for hyphens https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/139eb1784cbad19f4495962270f5b88255528fe9/test/test_parser.py#L254-L270
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gRegorLove Are there examples of php-mf2 returning incorrect ordering per https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/29?
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Loqi [Zegnat] #29 Define the order of items any time an array is used in the parsed output.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: my test example also does that :)
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KartikPrabhu so you could run it
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Zegnat gRegorLove, not for type, I think, that’s always alphabetical in php-mf2. I am actually not sure about rel.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: also https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/experimental/test/examples/ordering_dedup.html
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KartikPrabhu example of both order and duplication
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gRegorLove Should the expected output here be updated? Sorry, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around expected output for 'rels': http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#rel_parse_examples
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: no that expected output is correct
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gRegorLove Nevermind, I get it on re-reading
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KartikPrabhu see my example test above which has rel="boodongle alternate boodongle" that should give ['alternate', 'boodongle'] as output
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Zegnat gRegorLove, when I look at ["rel-urls"]["#"]["rels"] there it is neither alphabetically sorted, nor is it the union of all rels for that URL ("me" is missing) - http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20180321182735137
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Zegnat Putting that same HTML in the Python dev one, the union is right, but rels aren’t alphabetically sorted either
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gRegorLove Hang on, only looking at `rels` for the moment.
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: hmmm
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gRegorLove In this example, the two URLs should be sorted alphabetically under rels.author, right? http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20180321182848652
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KartikPrabhu aah I see. I am doing sorting only on each element, but this one is global will fix
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: no!
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gRegorLove Gah
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KartikPrabhu only the rels in rel-urls
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gRegorLove "set the value of that "rels" key to an array of all unique items in the set of rel values unioned with the current array value of the "rels" key, sorted alphabetically.
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gRegorLove "
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KartikPrabhu right. not individual "author" properties
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gRegorLove wat
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: read that as rels-urls > someurl > rels is the sorted one
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gRegorLove I'm not even talking about `rel-urls`
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KartikPrabhu then that output is correct the URLs are not to be sorted only the rel keys
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Zegnat Yes, looks like that HTML gets parsed completely correct gRegorLove
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@t hosting Homebrew Website Club SF tonight @MozSF! RSVP http://tantek.com/2018/080/e1 Special guest @aaronpk will demo his #IndieWeb reader setup! https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/12/17/building-an-indieweb-reader built on #openweb standards #WebSub #Microsub #microformats2 #IndieAuth #MicroPub ... http://tantek.com/t4tX1 (twitter.com/_/status/976527420189761536)
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Zegnat and yes KartikPrabhu, it is a sort after union :)
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: yeah I missed that one :)
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Zegnat Feel free to use that snippet of HTML as a test. Should test both sorting and unioning.
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gRegorLove Which?
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Zegnat http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20180321182735137
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Zegnat Should create: "rel-urls": { "#": { "rels": [ "archived", "bookmark", "me" ] } }
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gRegorLove Ok, my confusion here is because I'm talking about the `rels` at the same level as `items` in the parse, not rel-urls > rels
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gRegorLove Based on my reading, this is the ordering I would expect for the wiki example: https://gist.github.com/gRegorLove/3e917691323efc4073a0eb1b081cab41
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Zegnat All the orders there should be in source order. If the spec says otherwise that needs an issue. My sorting issue was only about rel-urls > rels
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Zegnat You are talking about step 4.2, where you should just “add url to the array” (to the end is implied).
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gRegorLove No wonder I haven't followed any of this. :)
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Zegnat Sorting alphabetically only applies on step 9
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gRegorLove issue 29 doesn't have `rel-urls` anywhere.
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Zegnat There is only 1 rels array in the spec
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Zegnat the other rels is an object
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Zegnat But yes, definitely confusing
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Zegnat My mistake
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gRegorLove Step 9 is still where my confusion lies
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Zegnat Step 9 is about rel-urls > rels though
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Zegnat Everything after step 5 is about rel-urls and its properties
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gRegorLove Okay, I'll have to re-read later with fresh eyes.
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gRegorLove If there's an issue with php-mf2 on this, issues welcomed.
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gRegorLove *github issues welcomed
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Zegnat I had to read it multiple times to catch on to that too. Maybe we can figure out a better way to write the rel parsing algo
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gRegorLove I must have understood it at some point since I worked on rel-urls in phpmf2, haha
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Loqi gRegorLove: lol
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KartikPrabhu ok mf2py experimental should be updated with ordering the rel-urls > rels
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: feel free to test ^ https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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KartikPrabhu needs to optimise that a lot of sorting is going on in the middle steps
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[kevinmarks] Probably not that significant as there are only ever a few rels
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