#microformats 2018-07-10
2018-07-10 UTC
#
gRegorLove Yeah, I was thinking `status` is sounding like a possible candidate
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove No consumers for read-status yet, either.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
tantek good vocabulary design is actually quite challenging / hard, and not something any person can just "do" by trial and error. it helps to do it within a community. helps even more to not create new terms at all, and instead research other formats and re-use existing terms / values. helps even more to get someone with any kind of informatics / informatician / librarian degree to use tools of analysis that they've formally learned.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
gRegorLove Sorry if I've jumped too far ahead. I'm wondering what, if anything, I should do with ibc mp posts now to avoid future issues. Add the -x-? Something else?
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove Like, I don't want to perpetuate those known errors via ibc
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove I thought they met the change control definitions for proposed properties. Sounds like they should go on the experimental properties page before that, though.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
tantek as someone who is likely "too close to the answer", I'd very much like your review of microformats.org/wiki/process, especially in comparison/contrast to the above advice, and pointing out what's either missing in microformats.org/wiki/process, or especially what makes no sense, or no longer makes any sense
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
gRegorLove I'll refresh on /process. It's been a while.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove I definitely wasn't trying to rush this through, and realize I'm close to it. :)
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
tantek start with considering moving "read-status" from the "how to" section (which makes it sound formally approved) to https://indieweb.org/read#Brainstorming with all the appropriate thoughts / caveats
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
gRegorLove Yeah, that How section I added recently. Figured I'd need to move it now.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove Those were brief experiments; haven't used those in a while
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
tantek also https://indieweb.org/read#IndieWeb_Examples only has two mentions of examples using read-of, yours and rhiaro's
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
gRegorLove schmarty isn't on there yet, but I know he does
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
[jgarber] joined the channel
#
gRegorLove Moved the How section to https://indieweb.org/read#gRegor_Morrill_thoughts, changed to p-x-read-status in the examples.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
tantek gRegorLove: closest example I have to something I'm similarly working on is https://indieweb.org/untag#How_to_mark_up.3F
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
tantek note that https://indieweb.org/untag is dominated by first use-cases, and second silo research to understand existing UX dynamics
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
tantek similarly, https://indieweb.org/read#Screenshots_of_functionality documents a bunch of great screenshots and could probably use some summary analysis afterwards of what is present in the screenshots, e.g. apparent status from a menu with "Currently Reading", "Read", "Want to Read"
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
gRegorLove tantek++ thanks for walking me through some of this
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove In other microformats, I do think u-bookmark-of might be ready to move to draft: https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/12 I'm pretty sure that's something you said in our mini microformats discussion with aaronpk and manton.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove Two consumers on https://indieweb.org/bookmark#Tools
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
gRegorLove oh yeah! added.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
[miklb], [jgmac1106] and [Lovi] joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu yes
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-r3A9y0QWUGA%2FT4XzCE5BhCI%2FAAAAAAAAPRU%2FzAXHDpcuuqg%2Fs50-c%2FRecursion-small.jpg&sig=a9ecafcc9307e4515063e0f829b1dcd78c592256290e7895e45e15433ba5cce7)
Adrian, tantek__, [eddie], [cleverdevil] and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Re listen/watch/read - that is what activity streams 2 ended up with; as1 had more (experience/consume/play) as near Synonyms. See http://activitystrea.ms/specs/json/schema/activity-schema.html#verbs
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
[kevinmarks] Not sure which were widely used. Play could combine listen and watch and also include playing a game. Read/listen could both apply to books, especially if you have a unified book +audio book model.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
tantek__ the interactive "play" I think is a better use for the term rather than "play" a video or "play" a record. whether playing a (sports || video) game, an instrument, perhaps even a part in play, though it's not clear if "playing" theater is the same meaning as "playing" sport, though perhaps they are, per professional wrestling
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=fdc026586d46976e19df06a113be643ff26d1dec5e3cb4e70d23224b6b3de6d0)
#
[kevinmarks] Documenting current formats can be useful
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
[kevinmarks] https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/opengraph/using-actions shows that they have deprecated custom verbs, and also deprecated "listen" for music.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
[kevinmarks] Their verbs are a weird mix of tenses: 'plays/watches/listens' but 'visited' and 'celebrate'
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
[kevinmarks] Is "snitch tagging" worth documenting?
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2Fkm.jpg&sig=6494ae80202670629add2c3b259652af09c48c2abbee37ed05b3e75e2d83577b)
#
KartikPrabhu wtd!
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-r3A9y0QWUGA%2FT4XzCE5BhCI%2FAAAAAAAAPRU%2FzAXHDpcuuqg%2Fs50-c%2FRecursion-small.jpg&sig=a9ecafcc9307e4515063e0f829b1dcd78c592256290e7895e45e15433ba5cce7)
#
KartikPrabhu wtf*!
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-r3A9y0QWUGA%2FT4XzCE5BhCI%2FAAAAAAAAPRU%2FzAXHDpcuuqg%2Fs50-c%2FRecursion-small.jpg&sig=a9ecafcc9307e4515063e0f829b1dcd78c592256290e7895e45e15433ba5cce7)
#
KartikPrabhu Loqi: what is typo-swearing?
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-r3A9y0QWUGA%2FT4XzCE5BhCI%2FAAAAAAAAPRU%2FzAXHDpcuuqg%2Fs50-c%2FRecursion-small.jpg&sig=a9ecafcc9307e4515063e0f829b1dcd78c592256290e7895e45e15433ba5cce7)
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] wow awesome discussion of the read-of post really like the idea of a "finished" property that could be used in so many contexts
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fquickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com%2Ffile%2F6802fbcdd3fada8cb61ffb798978f72f%2Fthumb.jpg&sig=baae475641689e740df11b17420b079553c0063ca72f5a3ddfc096953f6d9d05)
nitot, [kevinmarks], barpthewire, [cjwillcock], [jgmac1106], [eddie], [wiobyrne], [stefp], TallTed, KartikPrabhu, tantek__, vivus, [kim_landwehr] and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] tantek++ for a great crash-course in microformats thinking this morning
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boffosocko.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=1e3cd41d1f41c4f6d311d3403e4dcf94736619088efbe7608b87adb56b557887)
#
[chrisaldrich] On a lot of these (read, watch, listen) "progress" seems to be a common thing. I'm curious if project management software might provide some clues. Particularly Gantt chart related areas...
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boffosocko.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=1e3cd41d1f41c4f6d311d3403e4dcf94736619088efbe7608b87adb56b557887)
#
gRegorLove tantek: /process makes sense to me particularly for new h-*; I wasn't clear if it's the same process for proposing new properties. I also wasn't clear if properties require the *-examples, *-formats, *-brainstorming pages on mf2, or if we're relying on indieweb wiki more for that now.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] I've never seen the HTML progress element before... may have to start using that... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/progress
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boffosocko.com%2Flogo.jpg&sig=1e3cd41d1f41c4f6d311d3403e4dcf94736619088efbe7608b87adb56b557887)
#
gRegorLove Sounds good, tantek. I'm keeping an eye out now for consumers of properties and documenting them in a "Tools" section, being sure to use "consume" so it's findable on the page more easily.
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove Actual consumers of the mf properties, not just micropub, now that I understand that :)
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
#
gRegorLove I'll defer to you and others on that; will ask questions as they come to mind, though
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fsite%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F3473%2Fprofile-2016-med.jpg&sig=e64cbc976f148ec5a5e0dfc43518ae17b6f79d07d5585834694dd3fa33f924a2)
KartikPrabhu, [kevinmarks], [kim_landwehr], jackjamieson, [kiai], [tantek], [eddie] and tantek__ joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu wrong channel ;)
![](https://chat.indieweb.org/img.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-r3A9y0QWUGA%2FT4XzCE5BhCI%2FAAAAAAAAPRU%2FzAXHDpcuuqg%2Fs50-c%2FRecursion-small.jpg&sig=a9ecafcc9307e4515063e0f829b1dcd78c592256290e7895e45e15433ba5cce7)
[kim_landwehr] joined the channel