#microformats 2018-08-24

2018-08-24 UTC
tantek__ joined the channel
#
tantek__ willnorris: since you rediscovered the include-pattern, could you file an issue on the mf2 parser for us to track this discussion? since it isn't actually referenced by the parsing spec anywhere currently, we need to consider it an addition, and can track all the use-cases etc. there
#
tantek__ https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues
davidmead joined the channel
#
willnorris tantek__: will do
#
tantek__ thanks much!
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
@nagahitoyuki ↩️ #Google は #Microformats の #hentry のauthorとurlとuidと日時のvalueを認識しないと分かった。#SearchConsole の #構造化データ に表示されない。authorはhcard、urlとuidは「rel="bookmark"」、日時のvalueはpublishedやupdatedに含まれるに等しい。他の #検索エンジン などの機械向けに使いたい。 (twitter.com/_/status/1032787832744501248)
#
@CadizMarbella https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=https://www.facebook.com/Clinica.Micropigmentacion.Capilar.Marbella sonrisa perfecta hombre #Marbella, en ronda pigmentacion de ojos jaen eyebrows splendid. Sevilla micropigmentacion perdida cabello . Murcia dermopigmentacion cejas pelo a pelo, granada eyebrows blameless sonrisa perfecta hombre Marbella. (twitter.com/_/status/1032792359921221633)
ChanServ, gRegorLove, GWG, milkii, reidab, koddsson, ben_thatmustbeme, Phae, Garbee and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@CadizMarbella https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=https://www.facebook.com/Clinica.Micropigmentacion.Capilar.Marbella Dermopigmentation para la alopecia, valencia dermopigmentacion cejas pelo por pelo en san pedro eyebrows finished. San Pedro eliminar cicatriz cuero cabelludo. Sevilla tatuaje cejas pelo por pelo, mijas eyebrows splendid Rejuvenecimiento de la Sonrisa (twitter.com/_/status/1032832374319591424)
#
ben_thatmustbeme willnorris: tried to update with go get -u and getting a git submodule error
#
ben_thatmustbeme Fetched in submodule path 'testdata', but it did not contain d8f0ae59a0477356c83028db7d8c3375eaf3c36e. Direct fetching of that commit failed.
[eddie], tantek, tantek__ and aaronpk joined the channel
#
willnorris ben_thatmustbeme: oops, must have checked in at a commit that was part of a pull request. I'll fix now.
#
willnorris ben_thatmustbeme: should be fixed
tantek joined the channel
#
willnorris and it appears microformats.org is down again 😭
koddsson, KartikPrabhu, tantek, Guest97794, rdococ7 and barpthewire joined the channel
#
Zegnat Updated https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/39 to (hopefully) decouple it from the IndieAuth discussions
#
Loqi [Zegnat] #39 Include sizes attribute when parsing rel microformats.
#
Zegnat willnorris, awesome test implementation on that URL expanding proposal! Did the different HTML attributes give you any issues? That’s the one thing I find a little annoying about the proposal but didn’t see a better solution for
#
Zegnat I just rebased https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/pull/163 ... I was locally getting 40 failures, but Travis seems to register more in some places. Huh
#
Loqi [Zegnat] #163 Run mf2/tests test suite with PHPUnit during default testing
#
@CadizMarbella https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=https://www.facebook.com/Clinica.Micropigmentacion.Capilar.Marbella Cirug�a de mamas Marbella, en murcia micropigmentacion cejas pelo & pelo en motril eyebrows blameless. Benalmadena Quitar cicatrices acne Marbella. Sevilla tatuaje cejas pelo & pelo, en velez-coin eyebrows consummate Camuflaje Vitiligo. (twitter.com/_/status/1032922982220550144)
ms78213, barpthewire, [kevinmarks], [jgmac1106] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@dsgnprinciples Microformats Principles https://principles.design/examples/microformats-princples #designprinciples (twitter.com/_/status/1032968291848003587)
#
ben_thatmustbeme goes about writing an gentoo ebuild so he can install the haskell parser
#
sknebel jmac also has written a perl parser, that could be added too! https://github.com/jmacdotorg/microformats2-perl
#
Loqi [jmacdotorg] microformats2-perl: A Microformats2 parser library for Perl.
#
willnorris Zegnat: no issues with different attributes, largely because there are no text
#
willnorris Err, no tests for them
#
willnorris 😁
KartikPrabhu, decode and [eddie] joined the channel
#
aaronpk thanks gregor! going to cut a release now
timswast and barpthewire joined the channel
#
aaronpk php-mf2 0.4.6 is released! https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/releases/tag/0.4.6
timswast and timswast_ joined the channel
#
timswast_ I just got all my posts converted over to microformats2 and am now using a those formats to generate the index page at https://www.timswast.com/blog/
#
timswast_ But one problem I had is with the pixel art.
#
timswast_ I want to render pixel art with the proper CSS so that it scales nice and blocky
#
timswast_ I had been using class=“pixel-art” but that doesn’t fit in with microformats2
#
timswast_ Should I be adding u-x-pixel-art to the images? Would most mf2 parsers pick that up?
#
Zegnat They would pick it up, yes, but it is unlikely any consumer will know what to do with that property
#
timswast_ Well, mine would. :-)
#
Zegnat True!
#
Zegnat If you want to be really fancy, you could use h-timswast-pixel-art. Depends on the exact use case. You can then have <img class="u-photo h-timswast-pixel-art">, meaning non-supporting consumers see it as the photo of your post, while you can add an extra check to see if the photo is also a pixelart type
#
timswast_ Ideally I want to get the indieweb markup so that other pixel artist could use it. Yeah, I’ll definitely add u-photo too.
#
timswast_ I think if it seems the right way to do it, I’ll mark it up like <img class="u-photo h-x-pixel-art"> and send some PRs to indiereaders.
#
timswast_ Actually, why h- prefix?
#
willnorris (hey timswast_ 😁)
#
Zegnat See the parser outcome here: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20180824153213315
#
Zegnat Basically, consumers can either fallback on the straight "value" of the "photo" if they don’t understand the nested object.
#
aaronpk the h- seems unnecessary since there is no additional data beyond the url
#
Zegnat But if they do understand the object, they know it is of the type pixelart
#
Zegnat It is a bit of a hack to introduce fallback :P
#
aaronpk before making up new vocabulary, you want to make sure you have a solid consuming use case
#
Zegnat Also, using timswast as a vendor prefix on the h-, so as to not suggest it really is new vocab
#
aaronpk is there anything unique to these that isn't captured by using just the "photo" property?
#
timswast_ My consuming case is “treat like a regular photo, but don’t make it fuzzy when you scale it up”
#
aaronpk this looks similar to a photo gallery for example, like grantcodes is doing
#
Zegnat You would have to scale them without blurring
#
Zegnat I guess it is to tell readers to apply special rendering: https://css-tricks.com/almanac/properties/i/image-rendering/
#
aaronpk great
#
timswast_ I mean, I’d be fine with using image-rendering: pixellated everywhere, but I doubt most folks want that treatment for all photos
#
willnorris They're still just png filed, so only diff is semantic
#
willnorris Files*
#
aaronpk other than that, they are regular images?
#
timswast_ Yeah, just images. But they’re art that I want treated in a special way.
#
aaronpk is the exact pixel dimensions important when rendering?
#
timswast_ Not really. It’s a heuristic that small images are more likely to be pixel art, but some folks use big canvases.
#
willnorris (examples at https://www.timswast.com/blog/2016/11/03/octobit/)
#
Loqi [Tim Swast] Octobit 2016: A Month of Pixels https://www.timswast.com/blog/2016/11/03/octobit/octobit00-neon.png
#
aaronpk I mean do you want to ensure that readers are displaying these all in a grid like in your posts?
#
aaronpk or are readers free to choose a different layout
#
timswast_ Nah, I’m not particular about layout
#
timswast_ Just scaling.
#
aaronpk interesting
#
Zegnat “this is pixelart, don’t use anything but nearest neighbour when scaling” seems to be the thing you would want the mf2 to convey?
#
timswast_ Yep!
#
aaronpk sounds like a potential new type of media associated with h-entry, like how we have photo, video, and audio
#
timswast_ Could be. Though I’d prefer to treat it as a photo for readers that don’t understand pixel-art
#
aaronpk right, that's a question of fallback behavior
#
willnorris Sounds pretty niche though. Would you extend the entry vocab, or just specify a more specific photo like Zegnat suggested?
#
aaronpk for example, with video, there is usually also a photo which is a still frame from the video. for consumers that don't understand video, they see a photo, and for consumers that do understand video, they use the photo as the still frame
#
aaronpk you can have two classes on an element like <img src="pixel.gif" class="u-pixel-art u-photo">
#
Zegnat Do we define that fallback somewhere, aaronpk? Or is it just consumers assuming that a u-photo can be ignored if there is a u-video?
#
aaronpk Zegnat: it's in post type discovery
#
aaronpk so consumers that don't recognize the "pixel-art" property would still see "photo", and consumers that do recognize "pixel-art" would know that they can disregard the "photo" property
#
timswast_ Cool, I didn’t realize that kind of logic was possible.
#
timswast_ Yeah, I like that suggestion.
#
aaronpk it's not parser logic, it's logic in the thing consuming the parsed result
#
timswast_ Gotcha
#
Zegnat Post type discovery doesn’t do fallbacks, just identifies post type. This actually made me realise that people with mixed-albums might run into issues with readers. If I have a number of u-video and u-photo attached to my post, PTD is just going to call it a video post
#
aaronpk Zegnat: that's because mixed-albums aren't a supported post type in PTD
#
Zegnat I should maybe write that up somewhere. Though I don’t know if anyone is posting those.
#
Loqi yea
#
aaronpk I think instagram allows it
#
Zegnat Facebook does too
#
Zegnat Google albums also allow mixed content, as my latest vacation album proofs
#
aaronpk can't remember how I dealt with that with ownyourgram
#
Zegnat The pixel-art one is much clearer, as consumers can simply drop duplicate URLs from "photo" if they have already been handled by "pixel-art"
#
aaronpk timswast_: here's what that looks like https://php.microformats.io/?id=20180824154602850
#
aaronpk Zegnat: heh https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/master/lib/XRay/Formats/Instagram.php#L136
#
Zegnat That’s one way of solving it, aaronpk :P
#
Zegnat I think I have posted < 10 things to Instagram, so I can’t really speak for the interactions there
#
timswast_ I’ll mark up my site with u-photo u-pixel-art and see how it goes. Should I start a proposal on the wiki?
#
Zegnat timswast_, yes please!
#
aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/process
#
Loqi The microformats process
#
timswast_ Sounds good. Yeah, the process doc brought me here, so I’ll keep chugging through now that we have a solution.
#
Zegnat Actually, since you aren’t proposing a new standard, just a property, I think you can just throw the brainstorm on here: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry-brainstorming
#
aaronpk I would be particularly interested to see a wider variety of examples of people publishing this kind of art!
#
Zegnat See how pronouns is being explored here: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card-brainstorming
#
aaronpk in any case, collecting examples is key
#
Zegnat For sure
#
timswast_ Cool. I’ll start with my site and see if any of my pixel art buddies can follow suit.
#
aaronpk even just examples of the sites without mf2 markup is useful!
#
Zegnat Even if they aren’t copying your mf2 markup, just documenting examples of people posting pixel art to their blogs is a great start. As it shows the need for the mf2 property to exist
#
Zegnat (ugh, sniped by aaronpk)
#
Zegnat thinks he follows a pixel artist in his reader already
#
timswast_ Awesome. I can definitely do that.
#
aaronpk adds https://www.timswast.com/blog/ to his reader
#
Zegnat Other pixel artist regularly sharing art on a blog: http://probertson.tumblr.com/
#
timswast_ Thanks Aaron!
#
Zegnat Wait … http? Doesn’t tumblr redirect to https? *grumble*
#
timswast_ Problem: I can’t enter the captcha to create a wiki account. http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&action=submitlogin&type=signup&returnto=Main_Page
#
Loqi microformats community
#
timswast_ There’s pixel art news at https://retronator.com/
#
Zegnat btw, aaronpk, the video-poster-discussion wasn’t added to PTD but is here: https://github.com/tantek/post-type-discovery/issues/29
#
Loqi [aaronpk] #29 poster frame for videos
#
aaronpk Zegnat++ good find
#
Loqi Zegnat has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (147 in all channels)
#
timswast_ Recapta 1.0 was shut down and I’m not sure I can bypass it.
#
aaronpk hrm
#
aaronpk I thought it was still possible to create accounts
#
Zegnat If it requires the captcha: nope. The captcha was bypassable for a while but just frozen now.
#
Zegnat Never thought to check ... sorry timswast_!
#
aaronpk ugh
#
timswast_ I tried the bypass here: https://stackoverflow.com/a/50132165/101923 but no luck
#
Zegnat Yes, that bypass used to work. But hasn’t for a while now.
#
Zegnat It hasn’t really stopped regulars from posting changes to the wiki as the captcha only comes up when adding links (easy to bypass).
#
Zegnat Didn’t realise it would lock out new people :(
#
timswast_ :-(
#
Zegnat You could start https://indieweb.org/pixel-art in the meantime, that’ll get the ball rolling on collecting examples and things.
#
Zegnat aaronpk, do you think mixed photo/video album posts would be an example of https://github.com/tantek/post-type-discovery/issues/6 ?
#
Loqi [kevinmarks] #6 Composite posts - how to recognise?
#
aaronpk hmm
#
aaronpk not sure
#
sknebel distinguishing mixed posts from the u-photo poster fallback also sounds like a problem...
#
Zegnat Yep
#
aaronpk at some point a mixed post ends up being a collection, an h-entry with child h-entrys
#
Zegnat Mmmm, h-entry within h-feed within h-entry. Looking forward to it 😉
#
aaronpk I was looking into what it would take to upgrade the recaptcha plugin
#
aaronpk whoa there's something on the server that looks like super old malware
#
aaronpk yeah i'm just gonna delete this
#
Zegnat Was said malware eating memory, or is that still an unsolved question?
#
aaronpk luckily this script looks like it was only partially downloaded so there's a syntax error so it never has run
#
aaronpk I maybe shouldn't have posted this on github but oh well https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5fa0a9ed918b8320e8fb071a3f34b116
#
aaronpk there's some base64-encoded c code in there too o.O
#
Zegnat Wow
#
aaronpk i'm tempted to set up a new server and try to move the wiki and wordpress sites over to it
#
Zegnat Looking at sknebel’s wiki port, the wiki shouldn’t be giving you too much problem. Even if you’d update to a newer version
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Re-up: Whats’ the status / plan for renaming this repo, or not? https://github.com/microformats/microformat-node
#
Loqi [microformats] microformat-node: Microformats parser for node.js
#
aaronpk well http://microformats.org/wiki/mediawiki-customization
#
aaronpk especially "more that I'm sure I'm forgetting at the moment."
#
aaronpk so i'm inclined to not touch mediawiki and just try to move it over in place
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] another answer is to use svg for your pixel art so you have squares that scale. eg http://known.kevinmarks.com/2018/svg-version-of-aaronpks-bitmap-indieweb-badge-201712307indieweb-badge-s5hh
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] SVG version of @aaronpk's bitmap indieweb badge https://aaronparecki.com/2017/12/30/7/indieweb-badge https://svgshare.com/s/5Hh http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/0e6f80c1a51423b5d3290cf691808b20/indieweb-badge.svg
[scottgruber] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] pixel-art << Jen Schiffer's pixel art site https://make8bitart.com/
[tswast] joined the channel
#
[tswast] I have a few SVGs on my site, but PNG and GIF are much more common for pixel art and fits my workflow better.
#
[tswast] make8bitart is great, but it's native format https://jennmoney.biz/pxon/ is a little out there
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks and barpthewire joined the channel
#
aaronpk lols at the little "XML" icon next to the "Latest microformats news" header
#
aaronpk also omg the little rounded corners are made up of 3 gif
#
aaronpk s
#
aaronpk I want to replace that with css so bad
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] A pxon to svg converter would be a fun glitch app.
strugee joined the channel
#
aaronpk left: microformats.org running on ancient ubuntu/php/wordpress right: brand new wordpress on ubuntu 18.04 and php 7.2 https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-08-24-13-23-21-pABsOr7vjp.jpg
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
aaronpk holy crap. trying to restore a dump of the mf wiki into my local VM crashes the host machine
#
sknebel .oO
#
aaronpk twice
KartikPrabhu and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronpk update: I can run the current mediawiki under php 5.6 (it fails in 7.2 because the mysql functions were removed)
tantek__ joined the channel
#
aaronpk struggling with getting utf8 encoding working between the export and import in different mysql versions and environments
#
tantek__ with microformats?
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
sknebel are you doing an sql export, or a mediawiki one?
#
aaronpk sql export
#
sknebel ah
#
KartikPrabhu yeah sql is funny
#
sknebel latter might handle that for you? at least I didn't have trouble with the mirror
#
sknebel (well, it didn't use the export scripts obviously, but something using the same file format for transfer)
#
aaronpk the sql dump is like 1gb too
#
aaronpk so much spam
#
tantek__ oh dear - which database?
#
aaronpk microformats wiki
#
tantek__ from the past right?
#
tantek__ not current pages?
#
aaronpk it keeps revision history of the spam too
#
aaronpk so it's all still in there
#
tantek__ right, I think newer versions of MW allow deleting of page versions