#microformats 2019-03-27

2019-03-27 UTC
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joshnuss Hi, I'm new here.
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joshnuss Was wondering about adding a new mcroformat for receipts
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joshnuss how would I go about proposing it? or maybe it's something you've already considered
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[jgmac1106] Joshnuss the way to start with new properties is to first see if you can get it to fit into existing properties.. Then second consider any consumers... Who has a tool or need to read your h-receipts
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[jgmac1106] This is a good place to start https://indieweb.org/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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[jgmac1106] And a huge welcome joshnuss. What is your website?
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joshnuss h-receipt could be like an aggregation of existing standard. h-product, h-geo h-address. Probably will be missing some props. It should work from anaything from airline tickets (containing media+calendar events) to e-commerce purchase, but also consumables where the receipt contains expiration data.
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joshnuss you can find me at github.com/joshnuss
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[jgmac1106] Cool lot of people building #IndieWeb personal sites in Elixir or Ruby lot of places to start
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joshnuss :)
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joshnuss I really wish credit card/payment processors to accept a standard format for receipts. There's a wealth of data that is being turned into PDFs (essentially bitmaps)
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[jgmac1106] I am pretty new too but I think the h level is a top level event, something to follow... There wouldn't be consumers for what you propose
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joshnuss If receipt data could be standardized, imagine buying fast food and have the receipt go to your expenses and nutrition data to a fitness app
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joshnuss ok, cool, thanks for the help, I will take a look
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[jgmac1106] ... Yeah we find it way more sustainable to build small for ourselves rather than worry about bout masses
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[jgmac1106] Okay that is a bit different and some people do track food and nutrition
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joshnuss how do they track it?
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[jgmac1106] But not from a receipt or purchase (yet?) would take a database query for nutrition data
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joshnuss well the restaurant and grocery store already has that data, it's a matter of having a "h-nutrition" so they can attach it "h-product"
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[jgmac1106] I am not the best for quantified self and probably better question for IndieWeb or Dev
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[jgmac1106] I don't know of any restaurants using h-product but that would be cool.. But it would be p-nutrition... h is top level
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joshnuss what is IndieWeb?
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joshnuss oh gotcha
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[jgmac1106] I don't think Loqi works in microformats channel
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[jgmac1106] Ohh you weren't asking Loqi #IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] The channel
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joshnuss oh
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[jgmac1106] Yeah in our other channels you can ask the friendly bot questions that are answered with definitions from the wiki
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[jgmac1106] For your receipts just stick to an h-entry, if you add a photo use u-photo or -featured...maybe good question for others.
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[jgmac1106] Then if you add the text from the photo for accessibility purposes you could add p-category to tag different food types... Ton of work
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joshnuss yeah, id rather propose a p-nutrition
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joshnuss and a p-payment, p-fulfilment (like for digital delivery link or physical tracking number)
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[jgmac1106] I hate receipts hand them in all the time... Never tried any OCR scanners getting the html
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[jgmac1106] https://indieweb.org/food
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joshnuss sweet, thanks
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[jgmac1106] Possibly it goes there instead of under h-product or you have h-review if you were reviewing and including nutritional data
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joshnuss i see
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[jgmac1106] But really even food is still experimental... We don't really propose things rather keep trying until stable patterns emerge
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[jgmac1106] https://indieweb.org/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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aaronpk see also: http://microformats.org/wiki/process
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Loqi The microformats process
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[jgmac1106] Only the top group is truly settled on
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[jgmac1106] Thx aaronpk I could not remember that page
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aaronpk There are also some indieweb examples of people publishing a record of what they bought, tho not necessarily as a receipt. Similar tho.
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[jgmac1106] Acquisition I think
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[jgmac1106] And if you want example of quantified self aaronpk website a good model
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[kevinmarks] There is nutritional info in h-recipe though not structured
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@joshnuss ↩️ Spoke to http://microformats.org folks on irc. They have models for many of the individual parts (product, address, event, contact) just missing models for payment and digital/physical fulfillment. (twitter.com/_/status/1110709873623400448)
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joshnuss Thanks for the help
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[tantek] joshnuss welcome, and thanks for bringing up receipts! It certainly sounds like an interesting opportunity, and as others have brought up, there are folks publishing receipt-like things in the IndieWeb community so that might be a good place to start gathering existing online examples
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joshnuss thanks @tankek, i will poke around a bit more, but yeah it sounds like a lot is already existing
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[tantek] It would be good to document some consuming code use-cases, so that there is a chance of an ecosystem actually forming for the data to be produced and consumed.
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joshnuss totally, i'm gonna put together a blog post with some examples/use-case
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[tantek] awesome!
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joshnuss :)
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@heri ↩️ @joshnuss Do you use microformats? I used it in a project years ago (8 years ago?) but not clear if other sites ever took advantage of it (twitter.com/_/status/1110732819284795392)
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[tantek] And that's why all our modern uses and innovations in microformats focus on real world use cases for *both* publishing *and* consuming code
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joshnuss google search engine uses them right? so I guess that means pretty wide adoption
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[tantek] some of them yes
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[tantek] Google implemented microformats, and then decided to make things much more complicated with microdata, schema etc.
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@joshnuss ↩️ @heri Google uses it in their search product, see: https://developers.google.com/custom-search/docs/structured_data#using-microformats (twitter.com/_/status/1110741938947411968)
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joshnuss i see, good to know
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[tantek] also http://microformats.org/wiki/google-search
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[tantek] the problem was that Google implemented consuming code behind closed doors, and didn't really participate much in attempting to iterate on microformats (beyond some on hReview, and helping driving hReview-aggregate)
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[tantek] I expect that as microformats2 usage grows, Google will implement that too, since they generally pay attention to publishing patterns on the web. That's good, yet means we cannot depend / wait for them to collaborate to actually help create microformats or improve them.
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joshnuss i see
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joshnuss do you know if they use microformats in gmail? since receipt data is often received as an email
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@jgmac1106 Cool can't wait. The subject interests me a ton. If you are gonna blog about on your blogspot account a few us made a theme with proper microformats if interested. You can find links on the IndieWeb Getting started page. https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1GY3NP) (twitter.com/_/status/1110756198981210112)
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Zegnat joshnuss: it may be interesting to get in touch with https://jandinter.net/ about codeifying receipts too. He ran a session about “moneystuff” (contracts, transactions) in microformats during the Berlin IndieWebCamp (https://etherpad.indieweb.org/moneystuff)
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Zegnat His work from the Berlin weekend: https://github.com/jandinter/transactions-microformat
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joshnuss Zegnat: oh wow, that is super interesting, thx for sharing
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jamietanna[m] Are p-categories space separated? And is there a distinction between categories and tags?
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Zegnat p-category is not space separated, no. You could have categories/tags that include a space in their name.
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Zegnat microformats has no disctinction between categories and tags. The field name used by h-entry is `category`, and people tend to use that for tags on their posts
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Zegnat http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry describes it as “entry categories/tags”
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Zegnat joshnuss: there may be some spoken content about his ideas in some of the Berlin live streams, I can’t recall. I was there in person which is why I know about it.
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jamietanna[m] Thanks zegnat - so would it be comma separated? Or would you have multiple p-category elements, one per category?
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Zegnat You would have multiples. The p-category contains a string, and that string is a single category. microformats does not define any postprocessing of any kind for it
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jamietanna[m] Cool, thanks! Wasn't 100% from reading the wiki, so wanted to check :)
KartikPrabhu, nitot, ben_thatmustbeme, [jgmac1106], [Rose], [grantcodes], [schmarty], dougbeal|mb1, [kevinmarks], jackjamieson, barpthewire, [eddie], [tantek], gRegorLove and chrisaldrich joined the channel; mblaney left the channel
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@t Want to hear @zeldman and me talk #webstandards #CSS #microformats #independentweb what to do about the #toolchain rift(s) and latest advances in the #indieweb? 1hr+ raw & uncut @TheBigWebShow № 186: http://5by5.tv/bigwebshow/186 https://twitter.com/zeldman/status/1111017460210253826 https://tantek.com/t4zh1 (twitter.com/_/status/1111048044286373888)
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