#microformats 2019-10-06

2019-10-06 UTC
[schmarty], nitot, gRegorLove, [dougbeal], [tantek], [fluffy], [jgmac1106], [Michael_Beckwit, IWSlackGateway1, [snarfed] and [arush] joined the channel
hook007, [jgmac1106], [mapkyca], mauz555, gRegorLove, [schmarty], tsrt^, [tantek], astrojl_matrix and [Rose] joined the channel; hook007 left the channel
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[tantek]
Zegnat yes FB OG: likely due mostly to FB, and some secondary demand from TwitterCards
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[tantek]
Maybe tertiary from Slack
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Zegnat
I think there is a slew of chat applications that use OG for link previews. Discord / Telegram / Matrix (?). Not to mention social posting sites, e.g. I think I saw a PR land in Mastodon to use OG/Twittercard for link previews too.
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[Rose]
Discourse (forum software) also uses OG to my knowlede
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[Rose]
*knowledge
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[KevinMarks]
A lot of things fall back to og as well
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Zegnat
Twitter does (did?) that for TwitterCards
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[tantek]
right that's what I said
[jgmac1106], raulDiscord[m], [tonz], [mapkyca], [schmarty], yabirgbDiscord[m, [arush], [dmitshur], KartikPrabhu, [Lewis_Cowles] and [fluffy] joined the channel; hannessoloDiscor left the channel
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[fluffy]
also opengraph is relatively easy to parse and the spec is straightforward
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[fluffy]
also way more limited than mf2 but it covers a specific use case
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[tantek]
it's mostly a subset
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[tantek]
might be worth defining a mapping
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[fluffy]
yeah it’s pretty minimal. It’s good for what I’ve seen it used for but is a far cry from making a nice semantic web.
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[fluffy]
Also I really dislike how most opengraph consumers don’t seem to understand HTML entities.
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[fluffy]
(or maybe that was a bug in Publ that I’ve fixed, I’m not sure)
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Zegnat
There are lots of “dumb” parsers out there. Sometimes already because they didn’t want to ship a full HTML parser to get at the HTML tags. (I don’t blame them, PHP still doesn’t have a proper HTML5 parser.)
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[fluffy]
yeah, PHP even makes things like resolving relative links way more difficult than necessary, and almost everyone rolls their own and does it wrong. (Which is why I wrote php-urljoin.)
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[fluffy]
For being a web-oriented scripting language it sure misses out on a lot of web-oriented functionality. Same can be said for JavaScript though.
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[fluffy]
although PHP’s DOMDocument stuff works well enough in my experience.
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Zegnat
Define well enough? It uses xmllib for HTML parsing, and skips over HTML5 elements and sometimes has issues with self-closing elements (because they are stricter in XML)
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Zegnat
For php-mf2 we recommend installing a userland HTML parser
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Zegnat
[fluffy]: you can always vote for my curl URL lib issue on PHP, that could give us URL resolving for free: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=77991
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[tantek]
hey folks interested in h-event markup, (and RSVPs), I'm brainstorming a bit on listing both attendees and invitees on an h-event (could also be used on an RSVP too) here: https://indieweb.org/event#Invitations
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Zegnat
I am halfway to bed, but looking forward to read event brainstorm in the morning!
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[tantek]
Zegnat it's pretty simple brainstorming
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[tantek]
"u-attendee h-card" for attendees
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[tantek]
"u-invitee h-card" for invitees, but this one was already documented (and implemented!) as noted on https://indieweb.org/invitation
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[Lewis_Cowles]
[tantek] ability to include TZ offset, either text (problematic) or relative to UTC?
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[Lewis_Cowles]
thinking of people who may have a different native timezone and may remote
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[tantek]
makes sense for remote events yes. or visitors from out of town / timezone
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[Lewis_Cowles]
Might I humbly suggest PHP date('c') example `2004-02-12T15:19:21+00:00`
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[Lewis_Cowles]
golang, Java and C also support with
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[Lewis_Cowles]
`2006-01-02T15:04:05-0700`
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[Lewis_Cowles]
`yyyy-MM-dd'T'HH:mm:ssZ`
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[Lewis_Cowles]
respectively
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[Lewis_Cowles]
`%FT%T%z`
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[Lewis_Cowles]
probably means C++, Ruby & JS can play ball
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[tantek]
nah the "T" makes it less readable, and the :00 seconds is artificial precision
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[tantek]
both unnecessary for ISO8601 compliance
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[Lewis_Cowles]
yeah seconds is likely redundant, but without them, isn't it just making it harder for libraries to parse and support?
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[Lewis_Cowles]
A bit like mandating url's without port numbers excludes people on non 80, 443 ports
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[tantek]
no the libraries should be fixed to handle valid ISO 8601 datetimes without seconds instead of forcing all publishers to add artificial precision
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[tantek]
time is not the same as a port number
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[Lewis_Cowles]
seems it is supported according to rust docs, java docs, golang docs & PHP with a derivation of the format string. Bash supports it. It's a moot point as it seems to have support.
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