#microformats 2020-12-15

2020-12-15 UTC
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btrem I see. Note thought that my h-recipe page is a demo. There is a real-world need in the proposed h-menu. It is very common for menus to list one price atop several items, e.g., "Soft drinks $2.95" followed by a list of sodas and juices. Or draught beer $6.00/pint, followed by a draught list.
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btrem So I think a general include pattern would be useful. It's not a deal breaker. At least, I hope it's not. But menus in the wild do have a pattern which suggests an include of some kind.
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aaronpk yeah interesting
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btrem Take a look at the bottom of include-brainstorming for another possible use case.
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aaronpk tbh i never even knew about this https://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern
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btrem https://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-brainstorming
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aaronpk in any case that menu example should be added to the wiki somewhere
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btrem I tried the existing include pattern on a demo h-menu. It's a bit klunky. In FF, using <object> to link to another part of the page actually copies that part of the page. So I had a copy of an h-card for every include-pattern.
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aaronpk otherwise this all feels very theoretical
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btrem I was worried that the menu example was too big for the wiki.
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aaronpk the existing include-pattern is not likely to make any sense because it's for mf1 not mf2
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btrem And also that I'd be accused of jumping the gun by proposing properties and names for a root microformat that is still in the brainstorming phase.
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aaronpk i just mean adding actual examples of menus that do that
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btrem I'm new to this, and don't want to overstep any bounds.
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aaronpk like, screenshots even
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btrem Oh, those are already there.
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btrem https://microformats.org/wiki/menu-examples#T.S._McHugh.27s_Irish_Pub
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aaronpk ah great
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btrem I'm not sure if I can add images to the wiki. I can edit text. But images?
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btrem Because I made svg versions of the microformats logos, which are linked on the wiki, but I don't think anyone can upload it to the site.
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btrem https://btrem.github.io/microformats/
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Loqi Brian Tremblay
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aaronpk oh i think the wiki might have disabled image uploads entirely now that you mention it
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btrem Yes, that was what [tantek] said when I first showed the work.
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btrem But there are links to each menu that I describe on the examples page, that should be enough to show what's out there.
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aaronpk yes great
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btrem I am glad that I created actual menus with proposed markup. For me, I learn by doing. And I came across problems when I was actually writing markup that I could incorporate into my still very beta draft proposal.
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btrem edited /menu-examples (+236) "/* Break Restaurant */ Adds not about pricing multiple items by type." (view diff)
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btrem edited /menu-examples (+0) "/* Benoit */ Fixes link format." (view diff)
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[tantek] btrem++ for all the real world example research & documenting!
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Loqi btrem has 4 karma over the last year
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btrem Thanks for the karma. I need it. :)
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aaronpk haha yes btrem++
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Loqi btrem has 5 karma over the last year
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btrem Yes! :)
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btrem I worked for decades in restaurants, so it's something I know a little about. Including all the repetitious data entry we do whenever we change a menu.
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btrem (I'd still be working in a restaurant except, you know, covid.) :(
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btrem My sense there are enough menus, but I can always get more. I think I need to do a little more documentation on menu repetition, especially for the same restaurant.
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btrem I have one I haven't examined in detail yet, but they have at least three: their own website, GrubHub, and a third one I can't recall atm. And only 2 of them agree.
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chrisaldrich edited /menu (+31) "link to food; typo" (view diff)
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btrem edited /menu-examples (+19) "/* international restaurant chains */ Specifies that nutritional info must appear on menus in the U.S." (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich If you’re interested in microformats (in general) or web pages, data, and design relating to creating menus for restaurant web pages, there’s been some great conversation brewing in the microformats community over the past two weeks. (https://boffosocko.com/?p=55782863) (twitter.com/_/status/1338648094632800256)
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btrem Ooh, we made Twitter. Well, this *is* a banner day for me. :)
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[chrisaldrich] more eyeballs on the question can't hurt... 🙂
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btrem Yep. Thanks for spreading the word. Also thanks for fixing the typo on the wiki (that typo might have been me -- the offending fingers will be punished if they are responsible).
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btrem I didn't link to the food page because it's a stub will no content. I'm not sure what that stub is for. What is a microformat for food supposed to be used for?
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[chrisaldrich] I notice there's a mf1 page for products too which has some examples and many menus are really just lists of food products. https://microformats.org/wiki/product
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[chrisaldrich] Others may have more idea of the history of this path than I do having only been watching the broader space for only a few years....
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[chrisaldrich] I linked it because it had a stub examples page, and if nothing else, maybe it could be subsumed by this work...
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "microformats include pattern idea" http://ing.am/p/5m2H (twitter.com/_/status/1338662431434936320)
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btrem If you look at the menu-brainstorming page, that's pretty much my take: a menu is a list of products, so it's obvious to make h-menu essentially a list of h-products.
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btrem https://microformats.org/wiki/menu-brainstorming
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[chrisaldrich] wonders if andrew read that because I posted it to my reading.am account a bit earlier?
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btrem I don't know. I'm not on Twitter. But I think it's pretty damn cool that anyone is reading it.
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btrem I just sent an email to a sibling and an ex-bar regular that I'm "Twitter famous". :)
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btrem I don't really understand Twitter, but I notice that the link starts with "ing.am". Is that your link? (It appears to be a url shortener à la t.co).
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[chrisaldrich] reading.am is a bookmarking service for things you've read. I think andrew follows me, saw my link and read it and then tweeted it out
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@DeaneJ ↩️ Whatever happened to microformats? hcalendar? (twitter.com/_/status/1338748682951221248)
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@alexsirota ↩️ icalendar is rfc 2445 from 1998 and implemented as http://microformats.org/wiki/icalendar-implementations, yet support is greatly lacking due to lack of standard cross calendar friendly UI elements. And calendar technology still is inconsistent in consumption. First example of metadata that breaks, regularly. (twitter.com/_/status/1338823178014101512)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ We iterated on hCalendar to make h-event, which is simpler and doesn't try to handle recurring events. The advice to use explicit timezones helps too http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event (twitter.com/_/status/1338824128376266752)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ yes, markup with classes as described, then they can be parsed with a microformats parser into events, and there are existing translations to iCalendar (twitter.com/_/status/1338825323018919938)
[Raphael_Luckom], TallTed, [KevinMarks], [schmarty], [tantek], gRegorLove, [snarfed], [tw2113_Slack_], KartikPrabhu, [jgmac1106], [eddie], [chrisaldrich] and rawtext joined the channel