#microformats 2021-10-07

2021-10-07 UTC
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@egonwillighagen ↩️ how do you embed linked data in the Markdown files? HTML had stuff like microformats, RDFa... for Markdown I have not seen much yet. Got tips? (twitter.com/_/status/1445996868350132226)
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[tantek]1 yeah lol that's not the point of Markdown
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[tantek]1 despite the name, people keep trying to turn Markdown in Markup
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[KevinMarks] You can put html in markdown, then all the features of html are available
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[tantek]1 "can" — I don't believe that's supported enough for interop
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capjamesg[d] +1
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[fluffy] There are markdown extensions that let you add arbitrary HTML attributes to things, although they vary a lot based on processor.
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[KevinMarks] It's in the specs, some silos censor html
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[fluffy] But once you get to the point of adding attributes to Markdown you’re giving up a lot of the safety and simplicity of Markdown and almost reinventing HTML the long way around.
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[fluffy] Not to mention all of the “fun” of dealing with 29380280 different incompatible Markdown extension syntaxes.
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[fluffy] For the specific case of markdown and microformats it’s generally better to put that on your rendering template and provide a mechanism for sidecar metadata, which most SSG-style publishing systems allow.
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capjamesg[d] I do actually put HTML w/ microformats in .md files on my blog. But that's only because I read front-matter values for them and Jekyll supports this behavior.
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[fluffy] Here’s how I support indieweb stuff in my Publ templates: https://github.com/PlaidWeb/Publ-templates-beesbuzz.biz/blob/main/templates/_indieweb.html
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capjamesg[d] But HTML code itself (templates, full pages, etc.) is always in HTML. No need to complicate things by making the files .md.
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capjamesg[d] What syntax are you using in the HTML?
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[fluffy] Jinja2
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[fluffy] But yeah I agree, Markdown is for content, not templating.
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capjamesg[d] Ah. I was confused by the -.
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capjamesg[d] I just use {% for x in y %}{% endfor %} without the -
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[fluffy] Ah yeah that’s Jinja’s whitespace-eating operator.
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capjamesg[d] Ah, I see!
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capjamesg[d] That is cool! I had no idea that existed.
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[fluffy] Yeah, it’s not well-publicized. It’s nice to keep the generated HTML cleaner and also prevents adding extraneous whitespace.
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capjamesg[d] Thanks for sharing! I might start using that in my code! I think my whole IndieWeb stack relies on Flask, aside from my main site.
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capjamesg[d] To the original point...
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[fluffy] Yeah Publ is based on Flask.
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capjamesg[d] I wouldn't write HTML in an .md file that I planned to share unless I knew that the consumer would be able to interpret it (i.e. in the case of Jekyll where I can specify front matter that is then substituted into the HTML). HTML is always first for markup.
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[fluffy] Yeah, absolutely agree.
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capjamesg[d] Admittedly, I haven't looked into Publ that much. I shall have to do so!
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[fluffy] I only use .md for content files, and I only use HTML directly if there’s something .md can’t do cleanly, like complex table structure or iframe embeds or whatever.
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[fluffy] But anyway this is like… riding the knife’s edge of #microformats chat
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capjamesg[d] Yep. I think we're getting off topic. We can continue in an #indieweb chat.
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[fluffy] Basic point being that yeah there’s no reason to support microformats in Markdown itself, it should be handled by your rendering templates + frontmatter/metadata mechanism, or by embedding raw HTML for particularly weird cases.
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capjamesg[d] And most parsers are written with HTML content in mind, right?
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[fluffy] Yeah.
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[tantek]1 fluffy, this kind of formats talk is certainly good background for microformats
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[tantek]1 especially since we're talking about embedding HTML semantics
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[tantek]1 "embedding raw HTML" should always be treated as "embedding a potentially unbounded security hole"
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[tantek]1 (given JS holes etc.)
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[tantek]1 this is maybe the biggest reason why I think putting HTML in markdown is a very bad idea
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[tantek]1 violates lots of expectations of "safety" and general "staticness"
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[KevinMarks] I'm sure there are markdown injection attacks
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I don’t trust a markdown parser to do a HTML parsers job.
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capjamesg[d] [KevinMarks] That does make sense.
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capjamesg[d] I think there is an exception in a well made SSG that supports templating and front matter.
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capjamesg[d] Because in that case one is using the front matter for config and then the engine is rendering HTML.
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capjamesg[d] But that isn’t ideal.
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capjamesg[d] Actually, in my case, the semantics are in the file extension,
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capjamesg[d] Which I suspect influences how Jekyll parses a file.
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capjamesg[d] I think I should be able to safely change to .html. Because I do have microformats and HTML in the .mds for some post types.
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@dweekly ↩️ (Gestures at @t and microformats) this was all solved a decade+ ago! (twitter.com/_/status/1446198924734128129)
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[tantek]1 loool
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capjamesg[d] 😂
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@kevinmarks ↩️ sure, which is why we use them for RelMeAuth - https://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth - https://indielogin.com/ shows how this can work even for a static site without an auth implementation. (twitter.com/_/status/1446208784867774471)
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[tantek]1 hah KevinMarks I will start collecting cocktail napkins that have URLs on them just for that 😉
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