#microformats 2021-11-03

2021-11-03 UTC
gRegor, Seirdy, edburns[d], hendursa1, jeremycherfas and ur5us joined the channel
#
@GoodFirstBugs #36091: Built-in, optional support for microformats2? https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/36091 #GoodFirstBug #Gutenberg (twitter.com/_/status/1455835176924295170)
#
sknebel still isn't.
#
capjamesg[d] Hm. "microformats (and microformats2) have little adoption (across both publishers and consumers), and are somewhat outdated. If we're going to go down this route, we should bet on schema.org (via microdata, or better yet JSON-LD)"
#
capjamesg[d] (source: the last comment in that bug thread)
#
[tantek] anyone that's mentioning microdata with any seriousness in 2021 is very clearly out of touch with actual adoption
#
[tantek] sometimes this is a sign of SEO folks who essentially care about Google SERPs and nothing else, so of course they don't see the adoption they're not looking for
#
capjamesg[d] Indeed. SEO is only one lens through which to analyse the efficacy / relevance of a web structured data format.
[chrisbergr], [schmarty], [tw2113_Slack_], hendursaga and MarkJR84[d] joined the channel
#
[tantek] my experience with what happened with early microformats and "SEO" made it clear that any kind of "semantic markup" should at most consider "search" as a *secondary* use-case, never a primary use-case.
#
[tantek] Search engines should be indexing semantics that people published *for some other user-valid reason*, not because they want to show up better in search, because that leads to a metacrap feedback loop
#
[tantek] In that respect, it's actually *good* that Google is not saying "hey go use these microformats" because that would likely result in a lot more bad data in microformats
#
capjamesg[d] I agree.
#
capjamesg[d] I am adding support for microformats in IndieWeb search because I myself use them and see their benefits.
#
capjamesg[d] Because the engine is just for small sites I don’t expect people will add data just to get better SERP results.
#
capjamesg[d] Search is one of many use cases for microformats.
#
capjamesg[d] Their integration with tools like Micropub makes them a powerful way to markup data in a way that enables a rich ecosystem of consuming apps.
#
capjamesg[d] Whereas in SEO one usually thinks about the search vs. other benefits of structured data.
ur5us joined the channel
#
sknebel when I poked around that topic a while back I found it interesting how little sites use any of the markup for opening times
#
capjamesg[d] How do sites usually mark up opening times?
#
sknebel apparently its more "manually update it on FB/Google maps/..."
#
capjamesg[d] Or do you mean sites don’t usually use structured data for opening times?
#
capjamesg[d] Oh, I see.
#
sknebel they don't, and if they do it's broken and wrong
#
sknebel at least in the sample I looked at
#
capjamesg[d] Maybe it’s because opening times don’t usually come in a widget.
#
[KevinMarks] With technorati we did have a tighter loop for that, in that we had a pool of bloggers who wanted to express things, but it was still better when we were building on existing practice
#
capjamesg[d] Rather sites are left to do it themselves in a text box or whatever if they are using a generator.
#
[KevinMarks] The Google maps opening times flow is pretty good - they will accept a photo of the shop sign as verification
#
capjamesg[d] That’s cool.
#
capjamesg[d] Google Maps does maps so well.
#
[KevinMarks] You can do a lot with leaflet by writing a small amount of your own code
#
[KevinMarks] I'm very impressed with the leaflet/openstreetmap ecosystem
#
capjamesg[d] I haven’t seen Leaflet. Super interesting.
#
sknebel my current plan for "i want updates if the opening times for these change" now is trying to detect those "boxes"/page areas based on keywords and patterns and then alert if they change
#
sknebel to feed the info "hey, somone needs to go check that entry" into OSM spaces
#
sknebel (although the match between "website says" and "actually open" is also ... vague in some cases :D)
#
[KevinMarks] if you want a 'leaflet map in 10 lines of code' view source on https://where.kevin-marks.com/maptime/
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] Coffee, cheesecake and chill
#
[KevinMarks] which was some HWC hacking a while back (originally in London with my son Andrew)
#
[KevinMarks] the choice of tiles now is great https://leaflet-extras.github.io/leaflet-providers/preview/
#
capjamesg[d] Oh, that’s nice!
#
[tantek] opening times is such a hard problem for marking up
#
[tantek] also tends to be quite fuzzy data in practice
#
[tantek] there's not even much uniformity for how opening hours are displayed
#
sknebel heh, yeah, the openstreetmap data format for it is also a handful
#
[tantek] what are opening hours?
ben_thatmust joined the channel
#
@drewdaraabrams ↩️ Yeah, also microformats and OpenID seem of that vintage. Maybe also XMPP. There was a whole "IndieWeb" thing for a moment... (twitter.com/_/status/1456012093153443848)
[aciccarello] joined the channel
#
[aciccarello] "For a moment"
#
aaronpk i like how people assume that just because they stopped paying attention to something it must be over
#
[tantek] AKA Twitter attention span
GWG joined the channel