#microformats 2022-02-10

2022-02-10 UTC
jacky and maxwelljoslyn[d] joined the channel
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[tantek] reposting [aaronpk] from #indieweb-dev: "anyone want to write up release notes to summarize the changes? https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/milestone/4?closed=1"
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[tantek] and/or if you'd like to write a blog post about it, definitely worthy of putting up on the microformats blog!
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aaronpk oh barnaby just did! :) https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/releases/tag/v0.5.0
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[tantek] ^ indienews it!
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[tantek] aaronpk, do we have any updated v0.5.0 deployments besides https://pin13.net/mf2/ ?
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[tantek] that's worth documenting too
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aaronpk quick indienews post for now
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jacky curious that https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/blockquote#attr-cite isn't referenced as a method for mf2 parsing
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jacky like for implied url
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[tantek] jacky, because we haven't seen non-editor use-cases in the wild that would make use of it
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jacky gotcha
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[tantek] i.e. yes, if you check some of my edits to the indieweb wiki in the past few weeks, you may find <blockquote class="h-cite" cite="https://....">...etc.</blockquote>, but as no one else has yet bothered to pick-up and do anything similar, it's an experiment in publishing, nothing more
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[tantek] as editor, my own publishing experiments are insufficient as examples in the wild to justify parsing changes. it requires others to have their own independent incentives for using such publishing patterns, or at a minimum adopting such because they think it's a good idea
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jacky that makes sense (and prevents doing things for the sake of doing it)
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jacky good call
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[tantek] thanks. if you're curious and want to see a few realworld examples I constructed (to see if these make sense to you), the blockquotes in this section all use that class="h-cite" cite="...url..." pattern: https://indieweb.org/Web_3.0#Comparison_to_IndieWeb (view source and/or edit to see the code)
m5zs7k, _balupton[d], [KevinMarks], sknebel, strugee, IWSlackGateway, Zegnat, aspenmayer[d], daiyi[d], Jeremiah[d], hans63us[d], edburns[d], Zegnat[d], Ramon[d], Christian_Olivie, balupton[d], corenominal[d], sarahd[d], mossymaker[d], aaronpk[d], Murray[d], shaunix[d], capjamesg[d], MarkJR84[d], marksuth[d], rattroupe[d], sayanarijit[d], Myst[d], dovedozen[d], hoenir, Seb[d], Asaf_Agranat[d], wackycity[d], maxwelljoslyn[d], jacky, ur5us, P1000[d] and gRegor joined the channel
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gRegor barnabywalters++ for php-mf2 0.5.0!
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Loqi barnabywalters has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (12 in all channels)
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gRegor I will deploy it in the IndieAuth for ProcessWire module that should be released within the next week
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gRegor Probably the Webmention module, too. Haven't made any updates to that in a while
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[tantek] For folks updating their client code to use php-mf2 0.5.0, please keep track of what things broke and what you had to do to fix it! e.g. as aaronpk pointed out in #indieweb-meta, the IndieWeb Chat logs stopped working due to the image alt breaking change, and it was a relatively straightforward fix
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[tantek] This is worth including in any blog post about 0.5.0 to give a broader audience a heads-up for what to look for and how to fix
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aaronpk relatively straightforward fix but it was a significant change
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aaronpk i forgot that the "photo" property is now likely going to be an object with "value" and "alt" instead of just the URL string
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sknebel I guess with 0.x even assuming semantic versioning all bets are off :D
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aaronpk haha true i guess that should have been a major version
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aaronpk but yea we haven't even hit 1.0 yet 🤷
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[tantek] yes and the more of a heads-up we can provide to folks the better (more trust we'll build over time)
jacky, barnaby, gRegorLove_, ur5us, kimberlyhirsh[d] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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Seirdy Hey, are questions about mixing microformats2, microformats1, and other semantic markup (e.g. microdata) topical? if so: was wondering if anyone has any feedback on my implementation of statically-generated tumblr-style webmentions, mixing mf2, mf1, and microdata.
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Seirdy Demo: scroll down to the "webmentions" section of https://seirdy.one/2022/02/02/floss-security.html.
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Seirdy Source: Hugo templating at https://git.sr.ht/~seirdy/seirdy.one/tree/master/item/layouts/posts/single.html, using zerok's webmentiond.
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Seirdy (I figured that this is slightly more relevant here than indieweb-dev since it's primarily about markup)
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Loqi [Rohan Kumar] The right thing for the wrong reasons: FLOSS doesn't imply security
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Seirdy (i know this is a microformats room but i was also interested in feedback on how i used microdata to annotate webmentions, and how i used only the titles and not the contents to display them in a tumblr-like fashion).
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Seirdy (known issue: brid.gy re-uses the content as the title, resulting in very long titles).
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gRegor I'm not sure if mf2 + mf1 is needed, unless you think it's going to be consumed by a legacy mf1 parser.
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gRegor It looks like only the hcard inside the comments is mf1, so even then a legacy parser would only be getting a list of commenter names, not the associated comments (those are mf2 h-entry)
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gRegor *h-cite, actually
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gRegor So I think mf2 by itself would be ok
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[KevinMarks] the mastodon-hosted comments have richer mf2 markup on the site itself which may help with title vs content
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[KevinMarks] !mf2 https://floss.social/@alcinnz/107741267064780152
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffloss.social%2F%40alcinnz%2F107741267064780152
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Loqi [Adrian Cochrane] The right thing for the wrong reasons: FLOSS doesn't imply security - Seirdy: https://seirdy.one/2022/02/02/floss-security.htmlPlenty of good links here for me to dig into sometime soon!Not saying access to source code is worthless, I like doing it t...
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Loqi [Adrian Cochrane] The right thing for the wrong reasons: FLOSS doesn't imply security - Seirdy: https://seirdy.one/2022/02/02/floss-security.htmlPlenty of good links here for me to dig into sometime soon!Not saying access to source code is worthless, I like doing it t...
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Seirdy [KevinMarks]: yeah fediverse interactions also come from Pleroma, Misskey, Honk, Gotosocial, Friendica, etc.
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Seirdy not all of them have the right metadata
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Seirdy gRegor: my understanding is that microformats parsers employed by schema.org validators (e.g. search engines, news feeds) typically use mf1; mf2 is mostly for use by the indieweb.
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Seirdy i could be wrong tho
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gRegor I think Google search uses hReview but not sure about any other mf1
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gRegor nvm, looks like I'm wrong if https://validator.schema.org/ is correct
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Seirdy validator.schema.org is the reference impl, AFAICT. it's even linked to on Goog's "rich results" help pages. so i'd say it's correct by definition unless there's a bug.
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Seirdy (since Google was one of the founding members of schema.org, along with bing)
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gRegor Yeah, I found it from the structured data tool. What I wonder is if they do anything special with the mf1 parsed data. I know for hReview they do, showing the stars
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gRegor Not sure what I'd expect them to do with a list of hcards