#microformats 2022-04-29
2022-04-29 UTC
jacky, barpthewire, angelo, barpthewire_, ur5us, [deborahbrown_m] and [Will_Monroe] joined the channel
# 
@kevinmarks ↩️ I want to talk about the @microformats and #indieweb standardisation model.
This means using real web URLs as identifiers for people and things we talk about.
Then having html markup to explain what they are, and labelled links to show relationships. (twitter.com/_/status/1520114979848048640)
gRegor joined the channel
# 
Loqi [@kevinmarks] I'm on this space talking about interop of digital standards with @bluesky_commons in 10 minutes https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1vAxRkVrMPzKl
# 
[KevinMarks] twitter spaces kicks my headset off, so I'm using the phone mic - is the sound OK?
# 
@gvelez17 ↩️ Indyweb extends the original microformats with other protocols to combine these together, such as #webmention - combines source and target - can convey like, reply, rsvp, or any kind of response (twitter.com/_/status/1520117881878417408)
# @gvelez17 ↩️ Idea of microformats - url as identifiers, similar to twitter today where @ mentions are a link to that person
So the idea of using http and html markup to include structured data that is both machine and human readable (twitter.com/_/status/1520117554651418625)
# @gvelez17 ↩️ Intro from @kevinmarks - has been deep into microformats & indyweb (twitter.com/_/status/1520117552319393792)
# [KevinMarks] can DID's be resolved? I thought they were URIs
# [KevinMarks] I'm looking at https://godiddy.com/ and have no idea what to put into it
# 
@scott_anderson ↩️ I am a big fan of microformats, less so of the rigid process that they used which seemed to reject use cases that didn't fit with their agenda. (twitter.com/_/status/1520120462419800065)
# [KevinMarks] there's a lot of "could" in these explanations
# @kevinmarks ↩️ The process is designed for interoperability https://microformats.org/wiki/process
with microformats2 you can add arbitrary properties and new structure and have them parsed, but interop still requires agreement (twitter.com/_/status/1520121116068659201)
# @kevinmarks ↩️ sounds like h-feed to me - how long ago was this? (twitter.com/_/status/1520123235836350465)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ I needed a semantic context that grouped a set of microformats. Instead of providing me with some insights I was told my proposal was a straw man and to go away. (twitter.com/_/status/1520122777587486721)
ur5us joined the channel
# @scott_anderson ↩️ I actually ended up having a secret side conversation with the author of h-feed to get my requirements addressed. It was basically providing support for recursive h-feeds. (twitter.com/_/status/1520123938361151489)
# @gvelez17 ↩️ and love the idea of the microformats, so the people that I follow in the area of cuisine, or dweb, but maybe my dweb folks have really bad taste in food, and my cuisine friends don't know much about tech
So I want to see what people are thinking in specific areas (twitter.com/_/status/1520124724436635648)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ The weekend I participated in the email thread happened a short time before h-feed was proposed. (twitter.com/_/status/1520127395310669825)
[benatwork] joined the channel
# [KevinMarks] no, it is just audio and links. Which is really confusing
# [KevinMarks] they were talking about https://godiddy.com/
# [KevinMarks] which will make a useless DID with nothing in it
# [KevinMarks] ```{
# [KevinMarks] "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/did/v1",
# [KevinMarks] "authentication": [],
# [KevinMarks] "id": "did:web:did-web.godiddy.com:c575fa9c-e79c-4fa3-8277-9e01dd7e6978"
# [KevinMarks] }```
# [KevinMarks] "service": [],
# [KevinMarks] wtf
# [KevinMarks] an hour of Q&A …
# [KevinMarks] the godiddy site is like a nascar problem except for opaque acronyms instead of logos
# @gvelez17 ↩️ Closing remarks
Kevin: if interested in indyweb & microformats head to http://indyweb.org and see intros, linked wikis & discussions about how we've been using these things to build distributed publishing and posting, and there is a chat to start talking to folks about it (twitter.com/_/status/1520131568676720641)
# [KevinMarks] I don't think so
# [KevinMarks] they seem to keep wanting to connect even more complicated things together
# [KevinMarks] "It's intentionally not interoperable" - Joe Andrieu
# [KevinMarks] you're in microformats, no loqi defs
# [KevinMarks] OK, who all can help Matt? https://twitter.com/photomatt/status/1520140315985948672?s=20&t=ehybcylVt7OPhhIWg66ubg
# [KevinMarks] (mf2 for tumblr)
# 
[schmarty] o snap
# @scott_anderson ↩️ I found the e-mail thread ... didn't know they were public. http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-October/001169.html (twitter.com/_/status/1520147698397024256)
ur5us joined the channel
# @kevinmarks ↩️ I did talk about some of that context on the chat, where making sense of a lot of web documents is part of the problem space, rather than defining a specific API.
I think the microformats2 parsing solves this a lot more elegantly with the prefixes as parse directives. (twitter.com/_/status/1520150691158892544)
# [KevinMarks] also from that thread http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-October/001117.html
# [KevinMarks] sometimes we got somewhere with mailing lists
# [KevinMarks] hah, I noticed Joe was saying URL when he meant 'thing with a hash in that you have to choose from a forest of resolvers to understand it' http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-October/001632.html
# @kevinmarks Thanks to @scott_anderson for helping me find this explanation of 'Real Web URLs' from 2005 http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-October/001632.html (twitter.com/_/status/1520156161726636034)
GWG joined the channel
# 
@bluesky_commons The hazards of live tweeting audio...
Please visit http://indieweb.org to see more about #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/1520157525395447808)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ Machine readability and portability were core to what I wanted at the time from microformats. JSON support helped with the portability piece which along with easier parsing justified investments in tooling. (twitter.com/_/status/1520166414757335047)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ What I'm thinking about now is generating web content from JSON Feeds which deliver web components that contain microformats. (twitter.com/_/status/1520169319581110272)
# 
[chrisaldrich] [KevinMarks] while you're on about Tumblr, iirc they're wrapping their urls like https://href.li/?https://example.com which was also potentially causing problems with either parsers and/or properly receiving webmentions sent manually as well as for Brid.gy. I'm not easily finding a filed issue for it anywhere, but https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=href.li will surface some of the issues.
# @kevinmarks ↩️ That could work ;the parsed form of h-feed is potentially richer as jsonfeed doesn't really nest, (twitter.com/_/status/1520175487045324804)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ I have use cases for the feed being manipulated outside the browser like node running on a server and storing items in a JSON- based CMS. (twitter.com/_/status/1520177903765319680)
# @scott_anderson ↩️ I have additional use cases for other types of feeds that don't contain html and just feel going all in on hfeed is overloading it. (twitter.com/_/status/1520181561248796672)
# 
@masapo62106181 Webを支える技術読んでるけど、いまいちわからない。microformatsの章とか特に。
もうすこし優しい本でいい本はないのかな。 (twitter.com/_/status/1520188137485467649)
# @kevinmarks ↩️ The json format of parsed h-feed is pretty flexible too. (twitter.com/_/status/1520187549884596226)