#microformats 2022-10-07

2022-10-07 UTC
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@gatolabo Googleのリッチリザルトテストさんmicroformatsのhentryタイプの構造化データを評価してくれなくなった？Json-LDのArticleは見てくれるけど。 MicrosoftのWebmaster ToolsさんはMicroformatsの検証が壊れてる？ Schema\.orgのスキーマ マークアップ検証ツールさんはhentryも検証してくれる。 (twitter.com/_/status/1578198762929164288)
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angelo we were thinking that recipes are more generally incrementally adapted than other remixable art forms like music.
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[tantek]4 while that may be accurate, is it a useful distinction? or rather, is there some different behavior that one would expect from a recipe crawler finding an "adaptation" in addition to being a "remix"?
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[jgarber] So… “p-author” or “u-author”…?
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[jgarber] (I’m intentionally asking that vaguely. “It depends” is a suitable answer.)
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sknebel depends if it has a url or not
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KartikPrabhu [jgarber]: p-author if you want the text value, u-author for the URL value. If you want both or more use p-author h-card
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[jgarber] Is the “you” in that scenario you as the author of the page, the creator or user of a consumer of mf2 data, both…?
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KartikPrabhu consumer of the mf2 data
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[jgarber] I can see a case where I as the author would want to expose a URL as the “author” value of that was more useful for potential consumers.
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KartikPrabhu but you as author can decide what the output of the mf2 will be for consumption
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[jgarber] Yep, gotcha. Wanted to confirm that’s what you were saying. 👍
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KartikPrabhu [jgarber]: author can also use u-author h-card
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barnaby *-author properties are usually used to nest an h-card anyway
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[jgarber] yep yep, okay cool. This is confirming how I was thinking about the distinction between the two.
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[jgarber] Do y’all have any links to pages using one, the other, or both?
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KartikPrabhu [jgarber]: I would suggest testing a simpler markup in the existing parsers and see how they differ. Best way to see what's going on IMO
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KartikPrabhu that's how I learnt anyway
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barnaby when you nest an h-card under an *-author property, all which changes is the value of the 'value' key of the nested microformat (text if p-author, url if u-author)
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barnaby in practise I think most consumers which find a nested author h-card will end up using properties from the nested author and ignore the 'value' key
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barnaby I’m not sure if there’s a recommendation or consensus on whether to provide a URL or plain text name on an author property without an h-card under it, but I imagine that most consumers would assume that it’s a plaintext value
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KartikPrabhu see: http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20221007173037750 for p-author h-card vs http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20221007173124598 for u-author h-card
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barnaby https://indieweb.org/authorship-spec is also relevant
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KartikPrabhu barnaby: would be nice to have consensus on some "simplest" default recommendation
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KartikPrabhu of course people will be free too not use the "defualt"
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[jgarber] Thanks for the links, KartikPrabhu!
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[jgarber] barnaby: I was scanning the authorship spec as I was looking for any references to using u-author. 👍
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[jgarber] A consumer _could_ first check the “value” and if it quacks like a URL (regexp omg) then use it? Supposing it depends on the consumer’s use.
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KartikPrabhu yes that will be up to the consumer
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[jgarber] Or, check for a nested h-card and use those properties. If no h-card, look at “value” and if it’s a URL, parse _that_ page for additional data. Otherwise you’ve likely got a name.
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barnaby yeah according to the authorship spec, nesting is best, followed by providing a URL, followed by providing a plaintext name
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[jgarber] Hah, there it is. I accidentally reiterated the spec to everyone. :melting_face:
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[jgarber] Now that we’ve talked about it some (and sincerely thank you all!), here’s the use case:
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[jgarber] I’m authoring an h-x-app and would like to expose an author (a property not yet accounted for by any of the examples on the wiki, I don’t think). My first thought was p-author with a nested h-card, but then I remembered seeing some references to u-author.
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[jgarber] Thus the question.
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[jgarber] From a consumer side, the authorship spec approach would cover reliably ascertaining a URL if one is available.
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[jgarber] I started thinking about the above after looking through the IndieAuth consent screen examples and looking at GitHub’s consent screen (which includes a link to the author of the application you’re granting permissions to).
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barnaby oh that’s a cool idea
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barnaby I’d definitely go with nested p-author h-card
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barnaby and definitely add it as an example to https://indieweb.org/consent_screen
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[jgarber] I’ll try and add those later tonight!
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[jgarber] From an authoring aide, I updated https://micromicro.cc last night to use “p-author h-card.”
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[jgarber] https://micromicro.cc/search?url=https://micromicro.cc
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Loqi micromicro.cc
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[jgarber] Some real ouroboros action with that search URL. 🐍
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gRegor Recommend using "h-app", or at least adding that to the classes. Also add/update examples on https://microformats.org/wiki/app-examples
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[jgarber] > Recommend using "h-app", or at least adding that to the classes.
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[jgarber] Last I looked at it, the app format was experimental so the h-x- prefix is/was “correct.” Has any of that changed? Is it good practice to use both root class names for experimental formats?
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[jgarber] > Also add/update examples on https://microformats.org/wiki/app-examples
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[jgarber] My apps are already listed there. 👍
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gRegor Opinion is mixed on -x in the community. I lean towards a vendor prefix being good (like -p3k) but -x tends to stick around and become default. There's an RFC about -x https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6648
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gRegor In practice, at least a couple IndieAuth Server apps that consume handle both h-x-app and h-app
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gRegor I suppose in either case consumers are going to need to update how they handle it at some point, if either h-app becomes a stable spec, or if it gets replaced with something else
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gRegor Oh cool. We should add the author properties you're using in that example
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gRegor Kind of related, this discussion for the IndieAuth spec: https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/issues/23
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Loqi [Zegnat] #23 Client Information Discovery without relying on microformats parsers.
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[jgarber] > Oh cool. We should add the author properties you're using in that example
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[jgarber] This is on my evening’s to-do list. 😄
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[jgarber] gRegor Thanks for the link to that spec issue!
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barnaby I wonder a bit if “author” is the best term for this role
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barnaby vs, e.g. “developer”
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[jgarber] In my case specifically, I wanted to reuse existing nomenclature.
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barnaby but IMO it’s fine to use author, and the consistency is good
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[jgarber] …and author makes the most sense. I “wrote” the software.
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barnaby re h-app vs h-x-app, the indieauth spec requires h-app https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#application-information
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barnaby although the “spec” it links to just links to /h-app, which mostly talks about using h-x-app
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barnaby so that’s a bit confusing
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barnaby either way, I should update taproot/indieauth to look for h-x-app in addition to h-app
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barnaby [jgarber]: also worth documenting use of author on https://indieweb.org/h-x-app#Properties
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jgarber edited /app-examples (+9) "/* micromicro.cc */ Add author to list of properties" (view diff)
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[jgarber] Updated both of these pages, adding `p-author` usage:
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[jgarber] • https://microformats.org/wiki/app-examples
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[jgarber] • https://indieweb.org/h-x-app#Properties
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jgarber edited /app-examples (+9) "/* rel-me.cc */ Add author to list of properties" (view diff)
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jgarber edited /app-examples (+9) "/* indieweb-endpoints.cc */ Add author to list of properties" (view diff)
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[jgarber] ☝ My collection of single-purpose web-things all now publish an `author` property within an `h-x-app`.
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barnaby nice!
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[jgarber] Not a one of them is IndieAuth-related, so there’s a few small examples outside of what I think is the primary use case (IndieAuth server consumption).
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[jgarber] I could imagine a “gallery” website that tracks URLs publishing `h-app` / `h-x-app` that periodically crawls and parses those URLs for mf2 data.
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[jgarber] …submissions via Webmention, okay this is more appropriate for #indieweb-dev and I don’t need to buy any more domains. :melting_face:
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sknebel :D
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